... I was going to say something but I guess you all know what I was about to say so no need to repeat it since you know what it is already. Hahahahaha
He is known to not be innocent, off to the firing squad!!!
Have you used an Air 2 in COLD water?
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... I was going to say something but I guess you all know what I was about to say so no need to repeat it since you know what it is already. Hahahahaha
He is known to not be innocent, off to the firing squad!!!
napDiver
Contributor
I don't have any issues with the Atomic SS1. I know its not the same but I believe they are similar.
60F to 50F water. Over 100 dives in those conditions over the past couple years.
If you have comfort problems with your integrated second. You need to increase the hose length + corrugated hose length. AND/OR correctly tune the regulator.
60F to 50F water. Over 100 dives in those conditions over the past couple years.
If you have comfort problems with your integrated second. You need to increase the hose length + corrugated hose length. AND/OR correctly tune the regulator.
MaxTorque
Contributor
For clarity, i don't have any dog in this fight so to speak. If you want to buy and use an Air2, go right ahead, frankly, if you want to do all your diving on the end of $5 worth of plastic garden hose, or only dive on $10k worth of titanium arctic ice diving rated regsets, go ahead too, it's your choice, no one is forcing you to do anything!
However, the point i was making is that an Air2 is primarily a "backup" regulator, you turn to it when things have gone wrong with your primary, (or your buddies using your primary etc) And at this point, there is (in my humble opinion) a significant difference when it comes to cold water performance, namely the resistance to freeflow as a result of freezing due to adiabatic airstream cooling under load. And although that freezing is typically more a direct function of the water content of your breathing gas, it is also driven by the regulators ability to source heat from the surrounding water, ie it's effective thermal impedance to that water.
I dive in the UK, fairly regularly at 10degC or below, and most of the gear UK divers use is of a known cold water performance, both through design, but just as importantly through a lot of actual, in-water use in a huge variety of situations, both normal and emergency ones. ie not just "theoretical" cold water performance but also "real world proven" cold water performance.
And that last point, is what i'm going to respectfully suggest is probably missing for the Air2. For all i know it might have brilliant cold water performance, heck it might make my Apeks MTX-R set look like a Home Depot sink "U-bend" for all i know, but i'm not sure there is enough rear world, in-cold-water evidence to support that suggestion, hence on my boats, when i look around i see all the other divers with Apeks regs and no-one has an AIR2.
And that really was the point of my first, er, point! There is a difference between diving "with" and diving "using" an Air2 in cold water,e specially if you want to include potential scenario's like airsharing, fighting currents, or high water content air fills into the equation
Does that make an AIR2 a bad thing, no of course not, but it could make it less appropriate under the specific circumstances we are talkign about here. And again, at the risk of repeating myself, its up to every individual to make there own call on this, i can't tell you what to do!
Regarding my 0-24 dives, i have this set simply because i have less than 25 dives since restarting diving. I originally was taught to dive at university i the early 1990's, when things were a bit difference to the tech and gear we take for granted now. I did a fair bit of diving, all in typical Uk conditions, cold, poor viz, heay currents etc, i'd have to go find my old paper log books to see how many dives i did back then, i'd guess at around 400 to 500 ish over probably 8 years.
In 2000 i moved away from the sea, to live in the place in the UK that is geopraphically about as far as it's possible to be from the sea, and my job (in motorsport (Formula 1, WRC, LeMans etc) and ultra high performance road car development) mean't i had no dives for the last 20 odd years. Then last year, i decided to take up diving again, and decided it was worth recertifiying due to the long dry gap and significant changes in diving tech, methods and approaches that have developed over that time. Then Covid hit, and my plan to rack up a fair few dives both in the UK and abroad during 2020 got necessarily paused. Hence i now sit at 22 dives since recertification, hence the number in my profile.
However, the point i was making is that an Air2 is primarily a "backup" regulator, you turn to it when things have gone wrong with your primary, (or your buddies using your primary etc) And at this point, there is (in my humble opinion) a significant difference when it comes to cold water performance, namely the resistance to freeflow as a result of freezing due to adiabatic airstream cooling under load. And although that freezing is typically more a direct function of the water content of your breathing gas, it is also driven by the regulators ability to source heat from the surrounding water, ie it's effective thermal impedance to that water.
I dive in the UK, fairly regularly at 10degC or below, and most of the gear UK divers use is of a known cold water performance, both through design, but just as importantly through a lot of actual, in-water use in a huge variety of situations, both normal and emergency ones. ie not just "theoretical" cold water performance but also "real world proven" cold water performance.
And that last point, is what i'm going to respectfully suggest is probably missing for the Air2. For all i know it might have brilliant cold water performance, heck it might make my Apeks MTX-R set look like a Home Depot sink "U-bend" for all i know, but i'm not sure there is enough rear world, in-cold-water evidence to support that suggestion, hence on my boats, when i look around i see all the other divers with Apeks regs and no-one has an AIR2.
And that really was the point of my first, er, point! There is a difference between diving "with" and diving "using" an Air2 in cold water,e specially if you want to include potential scenario's like airsharing, fighting currents, or high water content air fills into the equation
Does that make an AIR2 a bad thing, no of course not, but it could make it less appropriate under the specific circumstances we are talkign about here. And again, at the risk of repeating myself, its up to every individual to make there own call on this, i can't tell you what to do!
Regarding my 0-24 dives, i have this set simply because i have less than 25 dives since restarting diving. I originally was taught to dive at university i the early 1990's, when things were a bit difference to the tech and gear we take for granted now. I did a fair bit of diving, all in typical Uk conditions, cold, poor viz, heay currents etc, i'd have to go find my old paper log books to see how many dives i did back then, i'd guess at around 400 to 500 ish over probably 8 years.
In 2000 i moved away from the sea, to live in the place in the UK that is geopraphically about as far as it's possible to be from the sea, and my job (in motorsport (Formula 1, WRC, LeMans etc) and ultra high performance road car development) mean't i had no dives for the last 20 odd years. Then last year, i decided to take up diving again, and decided it was worth recertifiying due to the long dry gap and significant changes in diving tech, methods and approaches that have developed over that time. Then Covid hit, and my plan to rack up a fair few dives both in the UK and abroad during 2020 got necessarily paused. Hence i now sit at 22 dives since recertification, hence the number in my profile.
OP
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So you probably could have stopped there.
Your first point ("er, to know if an AIR2 "works" in cold water i rather think you're gonna have to actually use it, ie breath from it, to find out!") is a fair and good point. It's also my point. I don't currently own an Air 2 and have only used one while teaching with shop owned gear in the pool. I'm considering purchasing one, but I could end up using it in a situation where it would be up against the recommended rating or even slightly colder, and as an instructor I could have to be a buddy for a shared air drill/demonstration or a real scenario. I can't get personal experience with something I don't have, so I'm asking for other people's personal experience. You have no real personal experience to relate, just theoretical.
Yeah, I plan to make my own decision, based on the data available to me; that's why I'm asking for real life experiences.
johndiver999
Contributor
Is 50 degrees really cold water? I mean with respect to the potential for freezing? Is this even a potential issue?
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I would consider it "refreshingly brisk." I think cold is below 50°, closer to 40°, but the Air 2 is only rated to 50°F/10°C, which is why I want to know about personal experiences below that temperature. Kind of like how a tank may only be rated to 3000 psi, but people overfill or "cave fill" a tank and manage to live to tell the tale.
I use a 2mm suit to dive in Libya in July, August and September no issues but I would never use it in the UK or New England at all, this doesn't mean that 2mm suit is a bad suit not to be used at all. It means that I use it when appropriate and according to dive conditions and need. Same thing for Air II, I use it when it is appropriate. I have used the Air II in New England, ME down to RI, in addition in NY/NJ/DS without issues. My diving season when I lived for decades in NE was May to October (sometimes started earlier). I also lived in NY and dove NY/NJ in addition to Dutch Springs. Lowest water temperature was in the mid-40's F. I never had issues with BC inflator integrated second stage from Scubapro and SeaQuest/AL at all. I used the Seaquest AirSource and then moved on to the Scubapro Air II. The SP Air II was a better device and easier breathing alternate than the AirSource from SeaQuest/AL. I practiced using the Air II frequently at depth and in shallow water, no issues.
The Air II may not be for everyone in all circumstances in all dive locations around the world but it does have its place and it does just as well as other devices when used properly. The most important issue to note is that when you use the Air II, you modify your OOA technique if you are the donor where you switch to the Air II and you give your primary, on long hose, to the OOA diver. You also need to practice your technique for handling OOA situations and make sure that the Air II is working properly just like you do the same for octo., or necklaced second, set ups.
The Air II may not be for everyone in all circumstances in all dive locations around the world but it does have its place and it does just as well as other devices when used properly. The most important issue to note is that when you use the Air II, you modify your OOA technique if you are the donor where you switch to the Air II and you give your primary, on long hose, to the OOA diver. You also need to practice your technique for handling OOA situations and make sure that the Air II is working properly just like you do the same for octo., or necklaced second, set ups.
jakehbk
Contributor
Just an idea, but why not just buy another G260 to use as an octo if you don't like the SP R195/095?
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Reread my first post.
Because our pool BCs are Hydros Pros with the AIR 2, so this would allow me to use my own regulator with the shop's BC (which keeps my Stiletto out of the chlorine). Additionally, a single G260 second stage costs nearly as much as a Mk17/G260.
My question was not and still is not, "Which regulator should I get?" I am looking for real world, cold water experiences with an AIR 2.
johndiver999
Contributor
I think you are smart to ask for real world experience, but if there were an issue, don't you think it would be common knowledge? There is often a multitude of mis-information (and often negative comments) about Air2's on here, yet a complaint about cold water performance seems to be missing.
Plus, as mentioned, 50 degrees is a long, long way from freezing.
Not to mention, they have been making the things for how long, 35 years?
Plus, as mentioned, 50 degrees is a long, long way from freezing.
Not to mention, they have been making the things for how long, 35 years?
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