Have training standards "slipped"?

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tep

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I've ony been around here a few months, but it seems that almost every week there's a "today's training standards have slipped", a "you can't learn anything in 2 days", or a "when I learned to dive, we had to ...." thread. There's enough material in those threads for adn entire book on training issues in the dive industry. Maybe someday DAN or someone will do that book.

Until, then, here's my $0.02. Please be paitient, it's rather long...

I've seen the industry change quite a bit, literally through three "generations".

My dad and uncles were instructors in what I call the "macho diver" phase of the industry- the late 60s. They were all ex-military, and teaching as they had been taught - lots of fitness, "this is THE way it's done", all learn by doing and almost no theory. The 100 yard swim, the 20 minute tread water, and maybe some push-ups were the norm for the first class. Woment need not apply. Decompression was DON'T, and we use the by-God Navy tables to ensure that we don't get in a decomp situation. By the book! Gear was (by current standards) primitive, conditions in the area (the Ohio river) were tough (cold and 2-3 ft viz all the time), and they were doing a lot of brown-water rescue and "recovery". The "final exam" included diving into the river or lake with nothing on but a suit and finding and putting on all your gear under water. Buddy breathing (maybe from a two hose reg) and an out of air ascent were required.

I first certified myself in 1979. Gear was much better, BCs (vs safety vests) were coming out and power inflators were new. There was a generation of instructors who had learned from the "macho divers" and didn't think that all that rigor was still needed. Decompression was "emergency only" for when you violated the agency's tables (conservative versions of the Navy tables). Bouyancy and trim were barely taught, and there wasn't a lot about safe ascent speeds or safety stops. There was more theory, a lot more emphasis on "consumer level" safety, but you still had to swim 50 yards, tread water or stay afloat for 10 mins and do the "put on all the gear underwater" final, but you could do it in a pool. Women were welcome to this new "sport", which was also more social. Your instructor might or might not turn off your air while you were doing drills for the final open water, depending on how comfortable he thought you were in the water. "Safe-seconds" were the norm for NASDS training and buddy breathing was a "no-no", although this was not the norm throughout the industry. Sumersible pressure guages were begining to catch on, and no computers. There was an emergency out of air ascent from 30 ft required. (Tilt your head back and BLOW, trying to go as slow as possible!)

I just finished a completely new OW course a few months ago (Feb 2007). There was a (rather sales-oriented "diving is great you want to do it") DVD and a much thinner book than I had seen before. The theory was there, but rather watered down from my standpoint. (I'm and engineer and my 17 yr old had just finished AP Physics.) I would say the book had the *important* parts of the theory, plus a new emphasis on taking care of the environment, which is not a bad idea. There was a 50 yd swim, about 5 minutes of tread water and no pushups :-) In the pool, there were the same mask-clearing drills, but bouyancy and trim were a recurring, *important* part of the class. You had to doff and don your gear in he pool, but you kept your air on and reg the whole time. You *did* have to exchange weights with your buddy, which I thought was a more useful skill than some I'd been taught before. There was no emergency out of air ascent.

So, have standards "slipped"? Can you learn everything in 2 days? These are two complete different questions...
 
tep:
So, have standards "slipped"? Can you learn everything in 2 days? These are two complete different questions...
Like you I was certified in '79, the training was much more thorough back then but I don't believe it was all necessary to be a recreational scuba diver. By the same token I don't know if someone can learn all the should (enough to become an independent diver) in just a couple of days. I think it would depend on how well prepared the person was prior to the start of the class.

So I guess my vague answer to both questions would be...it completely depends on who is being trained.
 
Have standards slipped?

(All of this applies to recreational diving, not "tech diving", which is it's very own beast with completely different requirements!)

I would say that they have *changed*. There's a lot of stuff we don't train anymore because we've learned that it's not needed, or there's a better way to do it, or the equipment has gotten better, or the kind of diving we do has changed.

Buddy-breathing - equipment has changed, almost everyone has a secondary air source of their own, or their buddy's to use. Double drowning while attempting to buddy breathe was one of the most prevalent causes of diving deaths in the early years.

Bouyant emergency ascent - again, a seconday air source, along with submersible pressure gauges has made this a less-important skill. Dump valves for BCs now HAVE to be able to dump air faster than it can be filled, which helps, as does more emphasis on bouyancy and trim. The danger of embolism or other baro-trauma during training for this avoidable situation has been mitigated by training and equipment.

The 200 yard swim and 20-30 minute tread water - we're doing more boat diving and people seem to be less-inclined to make that shore dive when the surf is high. Everyone has surface bouyancy due to BCs and exposure suits. No one dives completely without some bouyancy these days. That 20 minute tread water was from when people dove with no exposure suit and no bouyancy control device.
 
I can't the standards have slipped...they have improved to realism. Most new people in the sport don't want to be UDT qualified...they just want to be safe divers
 
tep:
I've ony been around here a few months, but it seems that almost every week there's a "today's training standards have slipped", a "you can't learn anything in 2 days", or a "when I learned to dive, we had to ...." thread. There's enough material in those threads for adn entire book on training issues in the dive industry. Maybe someday DAN or someone will do that book.

Until, then, here's my $0.02. Please be paitient, it's rather long...

... So, have standards "slipped"? Can you learn everything in 2 days? These are two complete different questions...
We've had this conversation many times before. The lack of information that your post exhibits suggests that you've yet to read those threads. I think that you will find responses t o most of the issues that you raise in those earlier threads.
 
I'm quite curious as I was just certified last year. We did do emergency swimming ascent, buddy breathing (i.e. share one reg and pass back and forth), mask pulled off of face, take off all gear and replace it, and take off weights and replace all under water. We had to tread water for 10 minutes, and swim 100 yds.

Is that not the norm?
 
We did train CESA, both in the pool (horizontally, which was a lot worse) and in open water. We did practice removing and replacing gear and taking out and replacing weights underwater. Our instructor more or less skipped any and all of the silly advertisement and only answered about gear selections if asked, which I think is a good thing as it leaves more time for the actual training than if hed spend half the course talking about the adds thats so subtly placed in the course material..
 
Are the standards different with the different agencies (I mean, regarding the basic requirements)? We did all of th skills I listed in the pool and again in the ocean, in addition to a few other skills as our dives were beach dives off of Laguna Beach, in California.

We had no advertising of any kind in our course material, other than for DAN.
 
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