Have limits changed, or have I mis-remembered?

[tursiops]

i THINK i AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. mAY i ADD THAT THERE IS NO LAW REQUIRING SOME ONE WITH NO CERT AT ALL TO GO TO 130. nO LAW THAT i AM AWARE OF.
Sorry for the caps..... Certs is a CYA thing set by the insurance carriers as a provision for coverage. It also becomes and agency requirement to get air from a shop that deals with that agency. It is also an agency thing to control and manage further training. And when it comes to that aspect then AOW is just a class to get the necessary experience dives to exceed teh recommended limit of 60 ft. Sad to think that the limits have nothing to do with the diver and everything to do with litigation.

I have no idea what point your are trying to make, other than agencies (PADI in particular) suck, with insurance companies not far behind.

In your world, I think, no one every learned anything from any course they ever took, especially AOW, and they took the course only so they could get a card.

I do not want to live in your world, and I doubt very much that it has much of a population living there. Most of the people I know have learned a LOT from their scuba classes, and are eager to take more.

 

[Bob DBF]

(SSI requires 4 specialties for AOW)

SSI Advanced Adventurer is the equivalent to PADI, and other agencies, AOW. The SSI AOW is a different course and can be taken such that the usual requirements of AOW, deep and nav dives, are not taken.

The instructor was was selling four specialties instead of a five dive course. A good deal for him, not so much for you.


Bob

 

[ChuckP]

SSI Advanced Adventurer is the equivalent to PADI, and other agencies, AOW. The SSI AOW is a different course and can be taken such that the usual requirements of AOW, deep and nav dives, are not taken.

The instructor was was selling four specialties instead of a five dive course. A good deal for him, not so much for you.


Bob

I just looked at that again - I did SSI thru rescue diver but PADI divemaster. I misunderstood it all along - here I was thinking PADI really shorted their AOW class cause you only had to do one dive per specialty and SSI had to actually do the full specialties..... SSI AOW is 24 dives plus 4 specialties..... I absolutely see what you mean.....

I think at the beginning of someones diving,- taking the SSI advanced adventure or PADI AOW is a big deal, I think you can learn bunches of stuff that will cover most people thru their recreational diving. It all takes time and a tad bit of help along the way....

 

[NAM001]

I have no idea what point your are trying to make, other than agencies (PADI in particular) suck, with insurance companies not far behind.

In your world, I think, no one every learned anything from any course they ever took, especially AOW, and they took the course only so they could get a card.

I do not want to live in your world, and I doubt very much that it has much of a population living there. Most of the people I know have learned a LOT from their scuba classes, and are eager to take more.

that is not the point. the way the system works is get OW and you need nothing more. you need no further training because you can self evaluate and call your self qualified. that is the system we dive under. and it is not a good proocess.

long ago i took a nitrox class. i was having trouble getting through the computer menus of hold button 3 for 5 seconds and then hit button 1 etc. I asked for help but the instructor refused. why???? because i did not buy the computer from him. that is the mentality of our training philosophy.

 

[tursiops]

that is not the point. the way the system works is get OW and you need nothing more. you need no further training because you can self evaluate and call your self qualified. that is the system we dive under. and it is not a good proocess.

long ago i took a nitrox class. i was having trouble getting through the computer menus of hold button 3 for 5 seconds and then hit button 1 etc. I asked for help but the instructor refused. why???? because i did not buy the computer from him. that is the mentality of our training philosophy.

I'm sorry. I cannot accept a personal interaction you had with a bozo instructor as an indictment of the entire training system.

 

[yle]

Sad to think that the limits have nothing to do with the diver and everything to do with litigation.

Yes, it is sad to think that. Because it's untrue.

Litigation in scuba is extremely rare, mostly because agencies set standards with the aim of keeping divers safe. A scuba agency that focuses their effort on mitigating litigation would be like a homeowner in So Cal building a storm cellar in case of a tornado (i.e. we don't get tornadoes here.) Not a wise use of resources.

Scuba agencies focus their efforts (and resources) on improving diver safety, because that is relevant every day for many thousands of divers.

 

[yle]

that is not the point. the way the system works is get OW and you need nothing more. you need no further training because you can self evaluate and call your self qualified. that is the system we dive under. and it is not a good proocess.

long ago i took a nitrox class. i was having trouble getting through the computer menus of hold button 3 for 5 seconds and then hit button 1 etc. I asked for help but the instructor refused. why???? because i did not buy the computer from him. that is the mentality of our training philosophy.

KWS, seriously... the more you tell us, the more I'm convinced this is just a Texas thing. I have no experience with anyone in the scuba industry in Texas. Most of my experience is in So Cal, and I've spent some time in Florida. The people I know (instructors, etc) are the complete opposite from much of what you describe. (Although... now that I think about it, my brother lives near Dallas and he has shared stories of some scuba people behavior there that is consistent with what you've been describing.)

The good news is that it seems possible all of your negative impressions of the scuba industry have been caused by your local experience. Come on out to California, give us a chance to show you how cool diving people can be!

 

[NAM001]

Yes, it is sad to think that. Because it's untrue.

Litigation in scuba is extremely rare, mostly because agencies set standards with the aim of keeping divers safe. A scuba agency that focuses their effort on mitigating litigation would be like a homeowner in So Cal building a storm cellar in case of a tornado (i.e. we don't get tornadoes here.) Not a wise use of resources.

Scuba agencies focus their efforts (and resources) on improving diver safety, because that is relevant every day for many thousands of divers.

I think that if that were true,,,,, scuba deaths would not be in the court system looking for someone to pay for their neglance. the litigation is not solely on the agency it is all levels. I would agree that in regards to the agencies. their program is probably pretty well protected. not so true for boat operators and those diving with the dead diver. agendies fall back on their recommendations to divers. boats fall back on their waivers etc.

 

[NAM001]

KWS, seriously... the more you tell us, the more I'm convinced this is just a Texas thing. I have no experience with anyone in the scuba industry in Texas. Most of my experience is in So Cal, and I've spent some time in Florida. The people I know (instructors, etc) are the complete opposite from much of what you describe. (Although... now that I think about it, my brother lives near Dallas and he has shared stories of some scuba people behavior there that is consistent with what you've been describing.)

The good news is that it seems possible all of your negative impressions of the scuba industry have been caused by your local experience. Come on out to California, give us a chance to show you how cool diving people can be!

No thanks as far as california goes. my view is based in the structure of training. Things really went south fast 10-15 years ago as shops had to close when the big beef was buying on the network of form the lds. I will say that in diving intense areas there is no problems in how the instruction GOES BEYOND MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS. Mostly the objections to my opinions is always WELL I DONT DO IT THAT WAY. the problem divers do not come from those good instructors that realize the short comings of a course and do their best to insure a qualified diver is really qualified to do a dive. We get a lot of snowbird divers or vacation divers that have not been in the water for years and they think they are capable of doing an ocean dive ,,, and they are not. The majority have OW's and nothing more. they dont know what they dont know. boat operators will not say no becasue it is revenue for them. Attitudes vary greatly in taxi states vs other states. I believe cal is a taxi state. In cali's behalf the water temp is a great filter for so many new divers because of the gear required as opposed to the carribean where you can dive bare back and the dives are so simple. you pack on a 9 mil suit on a new diver adn he hits 50 ft and teh suit squeezes adn he becomes a rock and has never had to handle a situation like that before. So yes I suppose many things i have seen is geographic related. This is why the experience aspect is such a hard spot with me and others. couple that with divers atitudes of it is some one elses job to verify their safety. For instructors that teach the bare minimum OW course the result is a diver that is no way ready to do a deep dive. But it happens on boats a lot.

 

[tursiops]

Things really went south fast 10-15 years ago as shops had to close when the big beef was buying on the network of form the lds.

What does this mean? It is an incomprehensible sentence.

For instructors that teach the bare minimum OW course the result is a diver that is no way ready to do a deep dive. But it happens on boats a lot.

What happens on boats? I do not understand your point.