Had my first student today

[NW Dive Dawg]

Not to be nit-picky.......but the OP's first sentence in his first post was EXACTLY as follows........"As a trainee divemaster I had my first student today and I took her through open water 2." He did not say OW2, Dive 2. or CW2, or anything else.

At this point in his career to become a professional, he should know exactly what the term "Open Water" means. If that's not what he meant to say, then not a big deal....just let us know.....we all make mistakes..

But I think it's completely fair for all the participants on this thread.......and particularly the instructors, to have responded to the OP's own statement that this was an OPEN WATER dive.

 

[tursiops]

As a trainee divemaster I had my first student today and I took her through open water 2.

I apologize to all for helping to initiate the s*** storm. All was based on the OPs statement. I do not apologize for demanding adherence to teaching standards.

 

[berndo]

When we log them, we do not log confined water but rather OW 1-4.

I would think that's normal with any agency.

There is a lot of room for interpretation and assumption here. Which I believe is a big problem in this thread. It also shows that the OP does not have a full grasp on the proper terminology a pro should use when describing an event which very likely is not his fault.

I agree. That's the issue here.

He did clarify he did the full training session from briefing to end though... which is not Ok.

 

[Zef]

I understood that to refer to the 24 skills demonstrated in the Dive Skills Workshop listed on pg. 120/121 of the manual. Again I could be wrong, your are definitely more qualified than I am.

The section of the PADI Instructor Manual that deals with DM training (particularly the wording on pg. 130) imply to me that a DMT is require to act as an "Assistant Instructor" for the purposes of the section of the Manual you quoted during their assesments, enabling the first exception bullet under section 2 that you bolded in your excerpt from the manual. Yet again I could be wrong, your are still definitely more qualified than I am.

OP has explicitly stated that this was pool dive 2 (CW2).

I'm not so much trying to help the OP, as trying to mitigate the rush to judgement of his instructor. I am not sure his instructor didn't violate standards, but my sense of justice is offended by the apparent "guilty till proven innocent" attitude on SB with regard to this event. We weren't there, we have limited evidence from the OP, and the instructor in question has no opportunity to defend themselves.

I have rushed to judgment myself on SB, usually to my regret. Maybe I'm just doing penance here. (or maybe I'm making things worse by perpetuating the argument)

So just to be clear, here are pages 130, 131, 132, and 133 from the 2023 PADI Instructor Manual, taken from the Divemaster Course section. The Practical Assessments you are refering to in your post pertain to Practical Assessments 1 and 2 which are titled "Open Water Diver Students in Confined Water" and "Open Water Diver Students in Open Water" respectively....no where does it mention in these 2 sections that student divers are not under the direct supervision of the course instructor, and it does not even imply that they should be under indirect supervision as is stated in Practical Assessment 3.

It does say "supervise student divers not receiving the immediate attention of the instructor during training", which is largely interpreted as the instructor is present and actively participating in supervising the class but is focusing on either demonstrating a skill or assisting another student diver with a skill, and the Divemaster (or in this case the Divemaster in Training) is providing additional supervision as a backup to the instructor.

The notion that "indirect supervision" is not permited is based on the wording at the bottom of page 131: "Directly supervise candidates who are working with student divers."

-Z

 

[Zef]

Given the abbreviation OW2 is not explicitly defined by PADI, it unreasonable to assume that a new poster would automatically know SB's (undocumented) convention for the abbreviation.

But it is defined explicity by PADI. See pages 64 and 65 of the 2023 PADI Instructor Manual:

And from my read through the posts in this thread, the OP has never specifically stated that he was not conducting OW2 (Open Water dive 2).

-Z

 

[TMHeimer]

I apologize to all for helping to initiate the s*** storm. All was based on the OPs statement. I do not apologize for demanding adherence to teaching standards.

No need to apologize. I read many of the posts then stopped. The minute the OP first talked about what skills they were going to do I though the s*** storm would occur immediately. DMTs are there to observe. That's all I did as a DMT, other than acting as the victim for a Rescue Course. That's the way it should be, regardless of Standards wordings.
Maybe you would do something like a tired diver tow if need be (hey, a Rescue Diver or any diver can do that).

 

[L13]

No need to apologize. I read many of the posts then stopped. The minute the OP first talked about what skills they were going to do I though the s*** storm would occur immediately. DMTs are there to observe. That's all I did as a DMT, other than acting as the victim for a Rescue Course. That's the way it should be, regardless of Standards wordings.
Maybe you would do something like a tired diver tow if need be (hey, a Rescue Diver or any diver can do that).

Is all a DM is there for is to observe? If not, how is a DMT supposed to learn to be a DM if they don't practice DM activities while being observed? Do they magically just do it right once they are certified? In every other scuba class, the student is observed doing the thing they will be doing once certified. Deficiencies are corrected and the observation repeated until it is done right. Why is DMT different?

 

[TMHeimer]

Is all a DM is there for is to observe? If not, how is a DMT supposed to learn to be a DM if they don't practice DM activities while being observed? Do they magically just do it right once they are certified? In every other scuba class, the student is observed doing the thing they will be doing once certified. Deficiencies are corrected and the observation repeated until it is done right. Why is DMT different?

They practice doing the stuff on each other in the pool with the instructor as part of the course. From what I see on Hospital Dramas, that is basically what Interns do when they scrub in on an operation. Other than very remedial stuff, they just observe.
As well, the deficiencies you refer to are to correct the student and are corrected by the instructor or the certified divemaster. There is a difference between that and an uncertified DMT correcting stuff that an uncertified student is attempting. Then you also have the factor of the DMT not having the insurance a certified DM has.

 

[L13]

They practice doing the stuff on each other in the pool with the instructor as part of the course. From what I see on Hospital Dramas, that is basically what Interns do when they scrub in on an operation. Other than very remedial stuff, they just observe.

Really? That's all you think interns do is observe (and other very remedial stuff)? Your evidence is Hospital Dramas?

As well, the deficiencies you refer to are to correct the student and are corrected by the instructor or the certified divemaster. There is a difference between that and an uncertified DMT correcting stuff that an uncertified student is attempting. Then you also have the factor of the DMT not having the insurance a certified DM has.

I was referring to the instructor correcting deficiencies in the DMT's performance, which is only possible if the DMT is actually doing, not just observing.

 

[happy-diver]

Had all this effort been positively utilised the student could have been an instructor by now standards permitting