Had my first student today

[Scraps]

Had all this effort been positively utilised the student could have been an instructor by now standards permitting

Until yesterday, I never heard any DM or DM trainee use the phrase “my student,” first or otherwise.

OP is not training to be an instructor. Even when he finishes his program, he still won’t be qualified to teach.

So no, “all this effort“ could not have been re-directed to make the OP an instructor.

That’s one of the friction points in this thread.

And, as I said yesterday, my criticism is aimed at the instructor, not the OP.

On the occasions I’ve had DM candidates assist with my courses, it has never occurred to me to have them introduce skills. Why? Because they are present primarily for their own preparation to be divemasters and secondarily to help the course run more smoothly. Having them teach would not help them prepare to be a DM, because DM duties don’t involve teaching. Having them give pre-dive briefs, supervise gear setup, and helping herd and pay attention to divers are relevant to their future employment as a DM, so I do ask them to assist in these areas.

I can’t think of a valid pedagogical reason to have a DMT perform the teaching tasks the OP was assigned.

If she had a reason, she should have prepped him to explain the performance requirement and relevance of each skill, told him what errors students are likely to make, told him how to spot and constructively correct those errors, and told him how best to position himself to provide assistance or reassurance if the student gets flustered or panics. These are all instructor concerns that DM candidates don‘t need to know to become effective DM’s—whose primary job is to lead qualified divers..

From where I sit an ocean away, she put him in an untenable position, didn’t advance his preparation to become a DM, short-changed her students, and created a false impression that providing scuba instruction doesn’t require much special preparation, which is sort of true only when everything goes right.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Until yesterday, I never heard any DM or DM trainee use the phrase “my student,” first or otherwise.

Scraps, I'm sure your post is spot-on. I am not an instructor and know nothing of the standards, though this thread has been enlightening.

What I have seen as I read through this thread is people jumping on the OP's imprecise choice of vocabulary rather than the gist of what he was trying to convey. Just taking this example, from my perspective I can see how someone in the OP's position might proudly, enthusiastically, and maybe even with a slight wink for effect (though there are emojis for that), refer to their instructor's student as "my student"--referring to that particular one of the instructor's students that the instructor set me up with to demo a skill for. (Wording it "had a first student today" sounds more awkard to me.) It seems to me that learning the applicable vocabulary and being precise in how you phrase things is part of learning to teach, of which this seems to be the OP's first baby step.

 

[berndo]

Until yesterday, I never heard any DM or DM trainee use the phrase “my student,” first or otherwise.

I read it like 'I got to help out in class for the first time' rather than him literally teaching 'his' first student.

I don't know how it's phrased in the standards but the point is that the instructor needs to be in control of the situation and of the student at any time. If an instructor wants the DMT to demo some skill, the student has already seen and done (which would be the case on the second OW dive), I don't see an issue with it as long the instructor is still in control of the situation.

 

[L13]

These are all instructor concerns that DM candidates don‘t need to know to become effective DM’s—whose primary job is to lead qualified divers..

In many locations, a DM's primary job is as a Certified Assistant in OW classes and doing DSD's in confined water. The only time they lead qualified divers is when OW graduates do their first dives as a certified diver and for reactivates. They will be working almost exclusively with uncertified and barely certified divers. When DM's do a DSD, they absolutely should think if the student as "my student". When acting as a Certified Assistant in OW classes, they should feel personally responsible for the student, making the phrase "my student" not that inappropriate, and without changing the fact that the student is primarily the instructor's student.

In other locations, a DM's primary job has nothing to do with OW classes. They act primarily as local guides. They will be working almost exclusively with certified divers.

The two jobs are very different, but DM's are certified to do both, and the standards allow and require them to be prepared to do both.

I suspect DM instructors tailor their training of DMT's to focus on the the part of the job the DMT will be doing when they qualify, which varies depending on where they are. Yes, they will meet all the standards, but there will be a difference in emphasis.

 

[tursiops]

on the second OW dive)

You are just adding to confusion by saying this. Do you mean CW2 or OW2?

 

[berndo]

You are just adding to confusion by saying this. Do you mean CW2 or OW2?

I'll find you and beat you with my snorkel!

 

[Scraps]

In many locations, a DM's primary job is as a Certified Assistant in OW classes and doing DSD's in confined water. The only time they lead qualified divers is when OW graduates do their first dives as a certified diver and for reactivates. They will be working almost exclusively with uncertified and barely certified divers. When DM's do a DSD, they absolutely should think if the student as "my student". When acting as a Certified Assistant in OW classes, they should feel personally responsible for the student, making the phrase "my student" not that inappropriate, and without changing the fact that the student is primarily the instructor's student.

In other locations, a DM's primary job has nothing to do with OW classes. They act primarily as local guides. They will be working almost exclusively with certified divers.

The two jobs are very different, but DM's are certified to do both, and the standards allow and require them to be prepared to do both.

I suspect DM instructors tailor their training of DMT's to focus on the the part of the job the DMT will be doing when they qualify, which varies depending on where they are. Yes, they will meet all the standards, but there will be a difference in emphasis.

L13,
If you could read the job postings at the PADI Pros web site, you’d have a different perspective on how representative the “many locations” you’re familiar with are. It may be true for some landlocked shops, but those places don’t hire many DMs, and the ones they do hire are often all purpose helpers.

Here’s what the PADI blog says about the usual employment of DM’s:

A Divemaster is primarily a “dive leader”, who leads and is responsible for the safety of other certified divers. If you’ve ever taken an overseas trip where you’ve been allocated a dive guide, they are most likely a Divemaster. They know the dive sites like the back of their hand and they organize groups, logistics, and they manage any issues that might occur. They are responsible for the planning, dive briefings, rental gear allocation, boat coordination as well as the activities underwater.

PADI Divemasters are also able to assist PADI Instructors with courses, from the PADI Open Water Diver course through to continuing education courses. However, a Divemaster may not teach PADI core courses independently. So, if you want to lead dives and assist Instructors, (but teaching is not your calling) the PADI Divemaster is the right choice for you.

As for your suspicion that different instructors tailor their DM courses to the jobs the students will be doing upon certification, I’ll say that anything is possible and maybe someone is doing that, but your notion is fanciful.

For Dive centers, the DM program is not an employee recruitment tool; it’s a revenue stream. DM is the most expensive recreational course most shops offer, and its students are motivated to upgrade their gear. That’s not to say they won’t hire some of their students if the timing is right—that’s how I got my first gigs in the industry—but producing employees is not the point of the program.

Even if this were not the case, there’s not a lot of room in the DM program to “tailor” anything. Progress toward qualification and scores on evaluated portions are tracked on a two-page list of requirements, When you’ve done everything and collected all the required signatures, you‘re done. Nobody’s adding anything, except possibly requiring participation in local cleanup dives.

Most DMs do not end up working where they get trained unless they’re in a DM-IDC intern program at a major resort dive center, so there’s no reason to adjust the program for future hires.

 

[L13]

You are just adding to confusion by saying this. Do you mean CW2 or OW2?

For the bulk of this discussion, does it really mater? Other than the 2m depth question, the remain issues are are the same regardless of CW2 or OW2. The instructor still needs to be directly and closely supervising both students, and the DMT is still acting as a "Certified Assistant in training". Assuming adequate supervision by the instructor, the only question is if the "Certified Assistant in training" did something that a "Certified Assistant" isn't allowed to do, even with adequate supervision by the instructor.

@JRK44 has stated that both he and the student were closely supervised by the instructor. No one on SB has any evidence to the contrary.

 

[Scraps]

For the bulk of this discussion, does it really mater? Other than the 2m depth question, the remain issues are are the same regardless of CW2 or OW2. The instructor still needs to be directly and closely supervising both students, and the DMT is still acting as a "Certified Assistant in training". Assuming adequate supervision by the instructor, the only question is if the "Certified Assistant in training" did something that a "Certified Assistant" isn't allowed to do, even with adequate supervision by the instructor.

@JRK44 has stated that both he and the student were closely supervised by the instructor. No one on SB has any evidence to the contrary.

It makes a big difference.

In CW2, the instructor demonstrates the skills before the students perform them. Students are doing them for the first time, and they can screw up faster and more dramatically. That’s one reason the instructor does the teaching up close and personal.

In OW2, the students are expected to be able to perform the skills they previously performed in the pool. Demonstrations are given only as needed, and this is something a DM candidate can help a struggling student with—because the student previously demonstrated an ability to do the skills.

The way I conduct my classes, there’s another difference. In the CW dives, we enter the water to learn and practice skills. In the OW dives, we enter the water to go diving, and the students perform skills in the context of a dive. For example, for many students the starting position for sharing air is on the bottom. In my class, the starting position is wherever they happen to be (usually horizontal, about 3-4 feet off the bottom) when I signal the skill.

 

[L13]

L13,
If you could read the job postings at the PADI Pros web site, you’d have a different perspective on how representative the “many locations” you’re familiar with are. It may be true for some landlocked shops, but those places don’t hire many DMs, and the ones they do hire are often all purpose helpers.

Are you saying there are only a few landlocked shops? Or that landlocked shop DM's aren't really relevant? I said "many", not "most".

I live in a landlocked city. I have talked to many DM's and DMT's locally. They are primarily Certified Assistants.

I have been to a number of landlocked dive destinations. The DM's working those locations have a significant part of their job being Certified Assistants, and a significant amount of time as "dive leader".

I have been to a number of ocean dive destinations, The DM's working those locations appear to be almost exclusively doing the "dive leader" job.

I am sure that the DM's in the first 2 categories are a minority in the total DM population, but there are still "many" of them. Furthermore, the portion of DM training in question in this thread is exactly the portion most relevant to their jobs.

PADI Divemasters are also able to assist PADI Instructors with courses, from the PADI Open Water Diver course through to continuing education courses. However, a Divemaster may not teach PADI core courses independently. So, if you want to lead dives and assist Instructors, (but teaching is not your calling) the PADI Divemaster is the right choice for you.

PADI is contradicting itself here. There are several courses listed on pg. 31 of the PADI Instructor Manual as being teachable by a DM.

As for your suspicion that different instructors tailor their DM courses to the jobs the students will be doing upon certification, I’ll say that anything is possible and maybe someone is doing that, but your notion is fanciful.

I have observed different at landlocked locations.

There’s not a lot of room in the DM program to “tailor” anything. Progress toward qualification and scores on evaluated portions are tracked on a two-page list of requirements, When you’ve done everything and collected all the required signatures, you‘re done.

There is plenty of room for tailoring. Some things you sign off as soon as the minimum requirement is met. Some things you take the time to perfect at a higher level. The "list of requirements" and "required signatures" are similar features for OW classes, and yet instructors have no trouble tailoring those to their students.

Nobody’s adding anything, except possibly requiring participation in local cleanup dives.

None of the instructors in any of the scuba classes I have taken have limited themselves to doing only the absolute minimum. Many instructors on SB talk about the ways the exceed or supplement the standards when they teach other classes. Why would they suddenly take a "Nobody’s adding anything" attitude when it came to DMT's?

Do you only teach to the absolute minimum standards in your classes?

Most DMs do not end up working where they get trained unless they’re in a DM-IDC intern program at a major resort dive center, so there’s no reason to adjust the program for future hires.

While I don't doubt that you are right that in the whole population of DMs most do not end up working where they trained, most of the DMT's I have talked to do plan to work where they trained (a landlocked shop). Most of the DM's at the dive destinations I have been too are locals, I would be surprised if they traveled to a landlocked dive shop for training.