Had my first student today

[L13]

It's not my definition. Things have names in real life. Has nothing to to with SB.

Just curious, are you a dive instructor?

Where is OW2 defined?

@berndo you still haven't responded to this substantive question.

 

[L13]

Mod edit of some text.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

The relevant PADI terminology here is Confined Water 1, 2, 3... versus Open Water 1, 2, 3...
Perhaps @JRK44 can clarify whether this was a Confined Water pool dive #2, or an Open Water dive #2.

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EDIT to remove incorrect statement corrected by Mod below:

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Without being argumentative, PADI does NOT just call them Dive 1, 2, 3... The Instructor Manual quite clearly identifies the dives as Confined Water Dive 1, 2, 3 before subsequently using the abbreviated term "Dive 1". If that were not the case, then Open Water Dive 1 would be called "Dive 6", which it is not.
When the Moderators take the time to intervene on questions of fact, instead of just tone, it behooves everyone to get their facts straight before disagreeing.

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@JRK44 did clarify that it was in fact Dive 2, AKA Confined Water 2.

 

[berndo]

Thanks to the Mod who edited the post and the last page.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I am sorry but I don't see the good news here. I did my best to inform him that what he was experiencing was bad for him and 100% against agency standards. As instructors, we are told we are role models. As a DMT, if this is his role model, he needs to know that this is not appropriate behavior. Absolutely none of the criticism in this thread was towards him, rather it was towards the instructor who was breaking a lot of standards.

As for the "complete, comprehensive report" , one is not needed. He is a DMT and doing things a DM can't even do. Sure, the instructor may have had demonstrated the skills but for a DMT to give the brief of skills to be done is way outside of standards. DMTs should be giving dive briefings for guided dives, not discussing skills to be completed on OW2. There is no need to assume anything. I knew it was not a full report but did not need one to see the massive standards violations happening. This is about safety. His safety and the safety of the students. His instructor failed him, plain and simple.

The last thing I want to do is run anyone off of SB. Hell, I have been blasted many times here when I first started and it almost ran me off more than once. That is the reason I said that I understood his enthusiasm. But as someone who has had great mentors, I had to step up and say something.

If we as instructors don't speak up when standards are violated, how is the industry supposed to get better? With as much PADI bashing that goes on here, shouldn't those of us that are trying to help him see how things in his course have gone seriously sideways be applauded? Or should we keep silent in order to make sure he stays on SB knowing full well his future livelihood was at stake, not to mention the lives of divers he was supervising while be unqualified to do so.

I really do hope that @JRK44 sticks around and would be happy to discuss anything he wants via PM in order to make sure stays safe, protected and understands why what happened, from the brief bit of information we have been told, was horrendous at best. I am here to help others if I can which is why I felt the need to post in his thread.

Oh Turk . . .sigh . . . I was referring to you when I talked about delivering the good news first. My point was to lead with your compliment on his enthusiasm and then deliver the bad news. You did it backwards. Your appreciation for his enthusiasm probably fell on completely deaf ears by the time you'd finished delivering the bad news.

I will maintain my point that everyone blasted him before bothering to ask questions and dig deeper to make sure it was all as taken.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

And why didn't anyone but Wibble assume that Post #1, wasn't a full, complete, comprehensive report of the moment by moment in water session?

For heaven sake some of you are such PITAs.

Hey now, I did comment on his enthusiasm and self reflectance as being very valuable. I even messaged him directly.

I did have some concerns but I didn't want to pee in his corn flakes and get into that..i think everything will get sorted and he'll be an amazing instructor.

As far as your last comment, I'm trying not to be!

 

[L13]

I don't really understand what happened.
Did she sink and drown due to incorrect weighting or squeezed to death by the drysuit?

Both

 

[chillyinCanada]

You're absolutely right. I can't be bothered.
I have better things to do than teach social skills to internet trolls.

Since you're new here, I'll point out that we don't call people trolls. It can get your post deleted.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I don't have the time to respond to all of this as it is late right now and I have divers to take out tomorrow but I will respond in full after the dives.

I will say that the the OP is a DMT, not a DM therefore no skills should be shown to a student in an OWC. To say it is ok and shouldn't really matter is the definition of Normalization of Deviance. If you don't know what this is, I suggest the following links:

Human Factors in Diving
Doppler's Blog

I missed anyone saying that it didn't matter.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Oh Turk . . .sigh . . . I was referring to you when I talked about delivering the good news first. My point was to lead with your compliment on his enthusiasm and then deliver the bad news. You did it backwards. Your appreciation for his enthusiasm probably fell on completely deaf ears by the time you'd finished delivering the bad news.

I will maintain my point that everyone blasted him before bothering to ask questions and dig deeper to make sure it was all as taken.

Oops, sorry, it wasn't you Turk. My bad, I'm very sorry. You did the right thing of asking the questions in an attempt to seek clarity before laying it all out. Again, my apologies.

 

[L13]

While that appears to be a convention elsewhere, both for PADI and here, the actual relevant section of the PADI Instructor Manual(which @JRK44 hopefully referred to before his class) just calls them dives 1-4.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Without being argumentative, PADI does NOT just call them Dive 1, 2, 3... The Instructor Manual quite clearly identifies the dives as Confined Water Dive 1, 2, 3 before subsequently using the abbreviated term "Dive 1". If that were not the case, then Open Water Dive 1 would be called "Dive 6", which it is not.
When the Moderators take the time to intervene on questions of fact, instead of just tone, it behooves everyone to get their facts straight before disagreeing.
View attachment 775753

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@JRK44 did clarify that it was in fact Dive 2, AKA Confined Water 2.

I stand corrected.