GUE gear config

[mariosx]

If you click on my picture you’ll find the ignore button, click away.

But I want to be able to read your posts. Just not in a serious way.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I get the point, but yet humans are displaying cognitive capabilities that most animals not. There are emotions that are net positive, and emotions that net negative and affect the freedom and the experience of other people. Fundamentaly, for me, an adult that cannot control their spite and load all their accumulated insecurities to 20-30 years old divers that are enjoying a recreational activity are best case immature and in the average case pieces of sh.. cake.

People have emotions but it is not ok to kill your ex because they decided to leave you, or rape a random person because you feel sexual desire towards them, or kill random 8years old students because you feel unjusted by society.


But they don't want to go mainstream, to my understanding. And most people in GUE I know, including myself, like the strict standards with only few exceptions.

Yeap, and that's the main reason I like GUE as a non-profit organization. It maximizes safety and doesn't care about circumstances. You either tik all the boxes and can dive the "DIR", or you don't and you are on your own. GUE thankfuly for now, cares more for the divers than the business.

Yeap, but nobody said ever that the goal of GUE is to be more than a small scuba organization. Smaller scale guarantees the incredible uniform quality control which is by far the first priority for GUE.


You speak as if GUE wants/should expand, but this is not a concern for GUE.

Getting a little emotional there, don’t ya think?
I was reciting the history and why there is an attitude towards GUE/DIR for those that were curious. It’s kind of like, but obviously not nearly as deadly and horrific as the holocaust, but people don’t go around wearing swastikas because they like the design. There is a horrific history associated with that symbol.
OK, Before you go off about me comparing DIR to the Nazi regime, the mentality TO SOME is very similar in totalitarianism. This is the HISTORY that many are grappling with. To some it is still very fresh in their minds.
It sounds like you are very new. Give people a break and enjoy your diving.
Calm down, relax, and go enjoy your new found nirvana. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[mariosx]

Getting a little emotional there, don’t ya think?
I was reciting the history and why there is an attitude towards GUE/DIR for those that were curious. It’s kind of like, but obviously not nearly as deadly and horrific as the holocaust, but people don’t go around wearing swastikas because they like the design. There is a horrific history associated with that symbol.

Could you point where I went a little emotional? I think I am pretty chill. I emphasized, something that I will do for many other things without being a victim myself or feeling anything towards that: We may discuss few possible factors that drove some people towards being toxic members in the community, but not to justify them, which, whether it was your intention or not, it was implied by not providing an alternative. So GUE divers currently get hate not because of what some irrelevant nowdays people did 25 years back, but because some insecure people do not have the basic emotional maturity to move on and prefer to bash new divers in order to boost their egos. I would suggest that this is a more important factor, in a similar fashion that a more important factor for people commiting schoolshootings is psychopathy rather than absence of dating girls at 15.

OK, Before you go off about me comparing DIR to the Nazi regime,

Wearing the GUE logo means that you are trained by GUE, follow the GUE standards, and GUE procedures, or at least that you support the current philosophy of diving by GUE.
Wearing a swastika means that you are politicaly alligned with the Nazi party as expressed in Germany in recent history, that you promote racial hierarchy, death, imprisonment or punishment of free expression and non-acceptable opinions and lifestyles, etc. This is the ideological core, this is what you learn if you become a member of a neo-nazi organization by definition. But the ideological core of GUE is just diving in a team/safe/competent way. I was never doctronated by my GUE isntructors to bash other divers, call them strokes, etc. This is something that I learned from the GUE hating people that propagate this toxicity.

In the past, Mercedes, BMW, Fanta, etc were ideologically supporting the Nazis. NASA got a bunch of Nazi scientist themselves, saving them from trial. Do you know how the society will call people that behave to consumers using the products of the above companies or share tweets from NASA as nazis? That's right, insane. But for some reason this doesn't apply to GUE... Please convince me that this is not due to subjective criteria that LITERALLY are more forgiving to nazis than some random divers writting angry posts in the 90s. With your own words, you consider the Nazi regime far worse, but somehow your entire post ends up being less forgiving to GUE, unless you believe that it's reasonable calling all scientist in NASA nazis. Interesting, I guess we are the baddies afterall:

the mentality TO SOME is very similar in tozalitarianism.

To some, human rights is equivalent to jewish propaganda and the result of the new world order of the Zion protocols. I guess the Jewish people in the holocaust should be more understanding given their history of "controlling the banks, press, etc"... I hope it's obvious how irrelevant is this sentence to what I am saying.

To some GUE might mean anything they like. But as a recreational diver that cares about my safety, my betterment, and my enjoyment, I don't understand why I should face every now and then emotionally immature people that justify being a***oles on irrelavant to me events.

It is not a reason as you describe, it is just an excuse. I can also start bashing people from X agency because in the past the X agency had more loose standards (objective fact) which might actually led to people dying. We could potentially justify everything, but normalizing it, to me, is just normilizing harassment. And since I don't want to be treated as a know-all elitist diver that does everything in the single way that it's right, I assume that also divers trained by the X agency shouldn't be treated as potential murderers. If they do, good, I would enjoy the conversation if they are clear up-front.

Even though I am extremely thick skinned, and in real-life I can shut down in less that few seconds such people, other GUE divers that take some break from their stressed lives to do something relaxing they enjoy, should not have to expect as "normal" that they will have to interact with a random manbaby that will outsource their misery and lack of therapy.

This is the HISTORY that many are grappling with. To some it is still very fresh in their minds.

Good for them. It looks like they need to take some break from diving and seek the help of a therapist. I am not sure why I should care, and why their massive problems should become also mine, just because I invested time and resources to better myself as a diver. Your entire tone seems to assume that the victims of their harassments should be more understanding, which I hope we agree that it's 100% problematic.

It sounds like you are very new.

Yeap, and I am not even a GI3 lookalike, but I am treated as such by some divers that need to work on themselves a bit more.

Give people a break and enjoy your diving.

????
Give people a break from what? I don't care about other people. I don't care how they dive. I don't go around telling them that they should be ashamed about irrelevant events that happened 25 years ago.

Instead, I think toxic emotionally immature people should give other divers a break, and not unloading all their insecurities and trauma from the 90s.

I had a 5% hope that overmphasizing the justifications as reasons of this toxicity, using toxic members of the DIR community of the past, was unintetional, but it seems that indeed you don't mind such harassment, and moreover you blame the recipients of the harassment, as if they should be the ones to be understanding...

Calm down, relax, and go enjoy your new found nirvana. Nothing wrong with that.

That's exactly what I do. Why you don't say the same to the divers initiating conflict based on their 25 years on trauma?

P/S: It's so easy to call out some toxic divers what they are just toxic crybabies. I am confused with all the mental gymnastics to justify their insane behavior.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Could you point where I went a little emotional? I think I am pretty chill. I emphasized, something that I will do for many other things without being a victim myself or feeling anything towards that: We may discuss few possible factors that drove some people towards being toxic members in the community, but not to justify them, which, whether it was your intention or not, it was implied by not providing an alternative. So GUE divers currently get hate not because of what some irrelevant nowdays people did 25 years back, but because some insecure people do not have the basic emotional maturity to move on and prefer to bash new divers in order to boost their egos. I would suggest that this is a more important factor, in a similar fashion that a more important factor for people commiting schoolshootings is psychopathy rather than absence of dating girls at 15.


Wearing the GUE logo means that you are trained by GUE, follow the GUE standards, and GUE procedures, or at least that you support the current philosophy of diving by GUE.
Wearing a swastika means that you are politicaly alligned with the Nazi party as expressed in Germany in recent history, that you promote racial hierarchy, death, imprisonment or punishment of free expression and non-acceptable opinions and lifestyles, etc. This is the ideological core, this is what you learn if you become a member of a neo-nazi organization by definition. But the ideological core of GUE is just diving in a team/safe/competent way. I was never doctronated by my GUE isntructors to bash other divers, call them strokes, etc. This is something that I learned from the GUE hating people that propagate this toxicity.

In the past, Mercedes, BMW, Fanta, etc were ideologically supporting the Nazis. NASA got a bunch of Nazi scientist themselves, saving them from trial. Do you know how the society will call people that behave to consumers using the products of the above companies or share tweets from NASA as nazis? That's right, insane. But for some reason this doesn't apply to GUE... Please convince me that this is not due to subjective criteria that LITERALLY are more forgiving to nazis than some random divers writting angry posts in the 90s. With your own words, you consider the Nazi regime far worse, but somehow your entire post ends up being less forgiving to GUE, unless you believe that it's reasonable calling all scientist in NASA nazis. Interesting.

To some, human rights is equivalent to jewish propaganda and the result of the new world order of the Zion protocols. I guess the Jewish people in the holocaust should be more understanding given their hostory of "controlling the banks, press, etc"... I hope it's obvious how irrelevant is this sentence to what I am saying.

To some GUE might mean anything they like. But as a recreational diver that cares about my safety, my betterment, and my enjoyment, I don't understand why I should face every now and then emotionally immature people that justify being a***oles on irrelavant to me events.

It is not a reason as you describe, it is just an excuse. I can also start bashing people from X agency because in the past the C agency had more loose standards (objective fact) which might actually led to people dying. We could potentially justify everything, but normalizing it, to me, is just normilizing harassment. And since I don't want to be treated as a know-all elitist diver that does everything in the single way that it's right, I assume that also divers trained by the X agency shouldn't be treated as potential murderers. If they do, good, I would enjoy the conversation if they are clear up-front.

Even though I am extremely thick skinned, and in real-life I can shut down in less that few seconds such people, other GUE divers that take some break from their stressed lives to do something relaxing they enjoy, should not have to expect as "normal" that they will have to interact with a random manbaby that will outsource their misery and lack of therapy.


Good for them. It looks like they need to take some break from diving and seek the help of a therapist. I am not sure why I should care, and why their massive problems should become also mine, just because I invested time and resources to better myself as a diver. Your entire tone seems to assume that the victims of their harassments should be more understanding, which I hope we agree that it's 100% problematic.


Yeap, and I am not even a GI3 lookalike, but I am treated as such by some divers that need to work on themselves a bit more.


????
Give people a break from what? I don't care about other people. I don't care how they dive. I don't go around telling them that they should be ashamed about irrelevant events that happened 25 years ago.

Instead, I think toxic emotionally immature people should give other divers a break, and not unloading all their insecurities and trauma from the 90s.

I had a 5% hope that overmphasizing the justifications as reasons of this toxicity, using toxic members of the DIR community of the past,, was unintetiona, but it seems that indeed you don't mind such harassment, and even worse you blame the receivers of the harassment, as if they should be the ones to be understanding...


That's exactly what I do. Why you don't say the same to the divers initiating conflict based on their 25 years on trauma?

P/S: It's so easy to call out some toxic divers what they are just toxic crybabies. I am confused with all the mental gymnastics to justify their insane behavior.

Lol!!
Oh man!

 

[grantctobin]

Lol!!
Oh man!

What an eloquent response...

 

[mariosx]

Lol!!
Oh man!

Such arguments. Such reasoning. Totally not supporting toxicity in the community. You convinced me.

 

[Lorenzoid]

This is the HISTORY that many are grappling with. To some it is still very fresh in their minds.

But for the stories of how it was 20 years ago being told and retold by aging divers on Internet forums like SB, few if any divers signing up for a Fundies class today would have any clue that GUE was ever anything but how they perceive it today.

I believe in studying history for the lessons we can learn. But in the case of GUE, what is there to be gained from pointing out to new-ish divers how it apparently was years ago?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You know, if only GUE had introduced their philosophy a little differently when they first broke into the scene it would be a lot different now.
But they didn’t.
I remember when they hit the West Coast (with a sledge hammer) in 1999 and there was this Jihad on all the internet forums all spearheaded by MHK and Jonny Walker. It was all very confrontational and testosterone driven. A lot of people got turned off and in some cases it caused a lot of animosity and contempt. It didn’t have to be like that.
So if people are wondering why the attitude towards DIR/GUE, that’s why.
No matter how good something is, you force feed it to someone or threaten them, harass them, tell them their strokes, etc. they will reject it.
It got so bad that it permanently damaged many peoples attitudes towards GUE and they will never get over it.
I hear DIR people say “oh just get over it”. Most of the new ones these days weren’t around when the DIR wars were happening so they have no clue.

Yeah, in Seattle there were some GUE divers (no longer around) who would laugh at some of the recreational divers. That did not endear GUE to the general diving public. While those people have quit diving a long time ago, and the GUE community is super supportive, non-confrontrational, etc., there is the resentment from people who wash out of fundies (like a particular SSI IT/Platinum Pro with thousands of dives/certifications).

The early attitude is understandable for hostility towards GUE for only those people who experienced it. The anti-GUE sentiment from those who didn't but are parroting what they were told or fundies washouts or people who couldn't make it past the timed swim requirements is not.

There's also the crowd in my area of people truly committed to mediocrity. Just the concept of trying to improve how one dives/teaches is offensive to them.

There are many instructors who have adopted some of the GUE skills of the cave style of diving, feet up modified frog kicking, heli turns, back kicking, etc. anybody can learn those skills on their own if you want, you don’t need to spend money on a GUE class to be able to do those. There are plenty of You Tube videos out there that demonstrate those skills. Many people even use their existing jacket BC’s and can do all this stuff.
There is nothing wrong with standard recreational gear and there is nothing wrong with conventional hose routing as long as you know how to use it and you buddy understands it also.
The long hose is only one of several legitimate configurations. Personally, I think the 7’ hose is impractical for basic recreational non overhead diving. A 40” under the arm is plenty and the same principal with air shares.

I like the long hose for recreational for one reason only: sharing gas while swimming horizontally where there is a lot of boat traffic. Regulations be d@mned, some boaters do not abide by them, and I wouldn't count on them seeing you if you are at the surface. Getting run over with a propeller is going to make your day a very bad one.

If you dive the I-beam at Cove 2 in Seattle (only the Seattle folks will know what I'm talking about), you really don't want to ascend to the surface with all the boat traffic. There can be a lot of it. Cove 2 is one of my primary teaching spots, and before teaching on a long hose, I would teach my students to share gas while swimming horizontally underwater.

Swimming underwater horizontally sharing gas on a 40 inch hose with locked arms where you cannot frog kick is a PITA.

Swimming underwater horizontally sharing gas on a 7 foot hose is quite comfortable.

 

[mariosx]

But in the case of GUE, what is there to be gained from pointing out to new-ish divers how it apparently was years ago?

Justifying harassment and maintining toxicity in the diving community of course. I think they were very clear...

 

[Lorenzoid]

Justifying harassment and maintining toxicity in the diving community of course. I think they were very clear...

And fanning the flames with a reply like that helps how?