GUE gear config

[tursiops]

As**oles for finding problematic the constant harassment in the community? Yeah... I guess I won't be able to fit in "your" scuba community thankfully.

So sorry.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Well this went the classic DIR war route. Though strangely only with one participant doing much of the fighting.

I believe GUE would say yes, it does. You don't have to agree. You could choose to silently disagree, continue through the class using your borrowed equipment, improve the skills that you took the class for the purpose of improving, and then continue after the class diving in your jacket BC, etc. Not everyone who takes Fundies finishes the class agreeing with all of the GUE philosophies. I suspect GUE recognizes that and that it's fine with them. But one of the goals of the class is to introduce you to the philosophies.

I agree with this a lot. I've said numerous times that if I can figure out how to dive doubles I would do the GUE Cave classes. I feel that they would have value, even if I don't plan to do any expedition diving nor really to do any cave diving in doubles.

 

[NorCalDM]

Ridiculous question, that shows the gap between the perception of GUE and the reality. And I don't want to blame you, just to emphasize the damage this toxic community does to a fun sport as scuba.

To answer seriously, if I believe that you are a safe diver, or you are a friend of mine that don't mind babysit 100% yes. Heck, 3 days ago I got my first training on drysuit from PADI. I occationaly dive with non GUE buddies often very capable (more than me at least), or just plain newbies with single digit dives.

The true question is whether I would enjoyed it as much (assuming you are not a close friend) and the answer is most probably not, because I will have to think regarding the procedures I need to adjust due to difference in the setups. But it's just about that.

How is it a ridiculous question it is a simple yes or no. So you would not dive with me as an insta-buddy because you may have to adjust. I would dive with you if we were paired up on a dive boat somewhere as I have done many times and had a blast. That is the issue many have had with DIR/GUE and the like, the history you don't want to talk about. I have no problem with DIR/GUE or any other specific training as I look at it as different tools for different jobs and not one fits all but I can take things from each that fit for me.

 

[grantctobin]

@mariosx, it is too bad you are so young. You'd have fit right in back in the GUE beginning, and today people would be talking about what a bad influence you were back then and how impossible it was to engage in a useful dialogue with you without being insulted. Your way or the highway...you were right and the rest of the world was wrong. Yep, good thing you are so young and thus not part of that awful beginning.

Likely due to my infancy, but I can’t remember if your argument is a variation of an ad hominem attack, or an appeal to authority to yourself because you’re so aged within the community.

 

[PfcAJ]

How is it a ridiculous question it is a simple yes or no. So you would not dive with me as an insta-buddy because you may have to adjust. I would dive with you if we were paired up on a dive boat somewhere as I have done many times and had a blast. That is the issue many have had with DIR/GUE and the like, the history you don't want to talk about. I have no problem with DIR/GUE or any other specific training as I look at it as different tools for different jobs and not one fits all but I can take things from each that fit for me.

This is probably my fav DIR/GUE question.

The answer is “maybe”.

It’s a maybe simply because there isn’t enough information. Your gear is only one part of the equation. Probably the least important part. There are PLENTY of GUE trained people I won’t dive with.

Risk aversion lies on a continuum. For me, in my assessment, a simple OW dive is pretty low risk and it’s something I’ll do with most anyone. If you’re a moron, then I’ll decline to dive regardless of your training and history.

Likewise, there are a few dudes whom with I’ll do just about any dive under the Sun. MOST of them are DIR guys. A few (super small handful) are not, but their brains work right so I’m down for it. But for the most complex dives, I want someone with the same gear and the same training and the same mindset as my buddy.

 

[mariosx]

How is it a ridiculous question it is a simple yes or no.

I could also ask you if you would stab me if you saw the blue H's of my harness. It is also answered with yes or no, but I see it as a non serious question, since I assume that you might actually stab me...

So you would not dive with me as an insta-buddy because you may have to adjust.

Nope! I said that I would happily, as I have done in the past, and I will do in the future, but it will not be as care free dive for me, which is completely irrelevant to your skills and competence. Still enjoyable but not as enjoyable as the average GUE dive for me. Something that I think I will overcome with more practice and experience.

I would dive with you if we were paired up on a dive boat somewhere as I have done many times and had a blast.

That makes 2 of us then.

That is the issue many have had with DIR/GUE and the like, the history you don't want to talk about.

I completely disaggree with the GUE hardliners on simple rec dives (few but exist). But even if you end up with the small minority of GUE-F divers that refuse to dive with non-GUE divers I cannot see the issue. Refusing to dive with other divers doesn't mean necesserily that you are superior, or that they are doing something wrong. Also it's hard for me to believe that this is the main issue, because GUE is a small small minority of the diving community, and such type of divers would never get themselves into a situation that they will be forced to do what they don't want to.

I can see the issue arising from people with poor self-esteem feeling the blanks (assuming we don't speak about some "macho" GUE divers from the 90s), but nothing more.

I have no problem with DIR/GUE or any other specific training as I look at it as different tools for different jobs and not one fits all but I can take things from each that fit for me.

Totally agree. Do you know why? Because you have a healthy attitude towards diving, like the majority of this awesome community. Fortunately this discussion is not about divers such as yourself, that are ustilizing critical thinking, are not overly obsessive, and simply thrive to dive in a safe and fun way.

 

[Cthippo]

I think there is a market here for a GUE skills class without the philosophy. I might even take that.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I think there is a market here for a GUE skills class without the philosophy. I might even take that.

Find an SDI instructor who augmented the Advanced Buoyancy Course to have similar performance requirements minutes the equipment requirements and team and diving with just the buoyancy, trim, finning, descents, ascents with task loading.

 

[ginti]

This is probably my fav DIR/GUE question.

The answer is “maybe”.

It’s a maybe simply because there isn’t enough information. Your gear is only one part of the equation. Probably the least important part. There are PLENTY of GUE trained people I won’t dive with.

Risk aversion lies on a continuum. For me, in my assessment, a simple OW dive is pretty low risk and it’s something I’ll do with most anyone. If you’re a moron, then I’ll decline to dive regardless of your training and history.

Likewise, there are a few dudes whom with I’ll do just about any dive under the Sun. MOST of them are DIR guys. A few (super small handful) are not, but their brains work right so I’m down for it. But for the most complex dives, I want someone with the same gear and the same training and the same mindset as my buddy.

@NorCalDM, FYI, this is the same approach I have (the only difference is that PfcAJ probably considers "easy" what I consider very challenging)

What do people think of GUE?

GUE diver here, so I like it I am into tech and cave, even if I am still in the low part of the training spectrum (read it: tech1 and cave1)

I took my GUE Fundamentals part 1 class (theory part) last night, pool session is this weekend, and basically took away all my gear is wrong / not safe / needs to be replaced lol.

"Not safe"? I am surprised they used these particular words for a standard BCD configuration. Are you sure they were not referring to something very specific?

"Wrong"? For the sake of the course, yes. But out of the course, do whatever you want, especially if you don't want to stay with GUE.

Anyway, let's go to the point. ANY configuration has advantages and disadvantages. It turned out that BP/W has many, and for several people this configuration is superior. But it doesn't have to be like that for you too... just try it, and if you like it - continue using it

I'm diving with jacket BC, Atomic SS1 secondary, no octopus - I'm pretty comfortable in the water (~250 dives now), think my buoyancy and trim is decent, and haven't had any issues donating air the one time I had a out of gas buddy.

If it is really decent, that's cool, really However, once you are in the course, keep the chance to shoot some videos and analyze your trim and buoyancy with your instructor. I hope there will be not much to improve, but you'll see.

I am trying the rental backplate/wing and long hose for the pool sessions - but it just seems so much clunkier and less streamlined than my current setup with the SS1? I do find my trim is not the best with the frontal weight pockets so am considering buying the backplate/wing if I like it, but I'm just not sold on the long hose.

The long hose has big advantages when donating gas. Here are two of them:

{1} It is so much comfortable, and if you will have to swim a lot before ending the dive, It is a MASSIVE plus for this configuration. This can happen in recreational diving! For instance, imagine you are diving in a place where there is boat traffic on the surface (it happened to me!)... you would prefer to go back to your anchor instead of using a DSMB. Doable with a short secondary hose? Yes, just less comfortable.

{2} A panicked diver will most likely grab the regulator you are breathing (never happened to me, and I hope it will never happen)

There are others, but they should be part of your course.

The "less streamlined/clunkier" thing is a non-issue: you will learn how to properly store it.

The only disadvantage of the long hose I can think of is this one: you need to properly train if you want to manage it correctly. Otherwise, it is more dangerous than the short hose.

My instructor also said any wing with bungees is really bad because you can't distribute the air yourself, which is relevant when diving side mount / multiple tanks etc.

NON-GUE DIVER MODE ON:
You will not die if you use a bungee wing. If you really like it, go for it.

However... it has no real-life advantages. It has minor disadvantages (the one mentioned by your instructor), but they are also not really likely to drastically change your dives.

How I see it is simpler: why have something I don't need?

My reason for signing up for GUE was mostly to get better at the different kicks, I can't do a backward or helicopter kick, and my GUE-obsessed friend insisted that it'll improve my buoyancy and trim massively.

Good reasons, but you can take more if you are open-minded enough. If you just want to learn back kicks and helicopter turns, go for a 1-to-1 session with a capable instructor.

But after listening to the theory yesterday it seems a lot of why GUE does things the way they do is to set up you for later tech / cave / wreck diving, which I have no interest in.

The fact that what we do comes from tech/overhead diving doesn't mean that it can't be helpful in rec-diving. It is actually so useful for most rec divers. I can't say whether you need what the course teaches since I don't know you. But, as others said, I never met a person who did not improve her diving 360°C - not only in terms of kicks but also in terms of other basic skills, awareness, attitude, etc.

I get the standardisation point and not having to relearn stuff as you progress, but if I already know I don't like cave / wreck and have no interest in tech, does GUE school of thought still have safety / efficiency benefits for regular recreational scuba?

Safety and efficiency? Yes, without a doubt.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Well it’s not just kicks- it’s about being more stable in the water in general. I like underwater photography and have noticed I rely more on the muck stick to stabilize myself than some others, and cannot back up or maintain position against the current if it’s pushing me towards the subject. So I figured the course will make me a better diver and photographer even if I don’t buy into it fully- I have not committed to fundies part 2.

I get you. I asked my TDI ANDP instructor if I should do the GUE fundies course. He did it and said it was very useful for his teaching.
He said not really a thing I need for my diving. I do not use a stick to stabilize myself when taking video or photos. I can back kick and helicopter kick which was taught to me in my BSAC course instructor. I will let myself rock forwards and backwards in swirly currents holding my arms out keeping my camera still while the rest of me moves around.

If a current is too strong and pushing you towards the subject then you can swim past and then head back into the current. Not always
possible. You really need good control for macro photos and video if not using a tripod for the camera. Take what you can from your GUE course now you have started it. I personally prefer my jacket BCD to backplate and wing as do others I know. Some of the people I dive with use back plate wing. We all get to know each others gear setups.

I'm off to Lombok next to Bali for some large surface swells and fast current drift diving. Won't be trying to back kick in any fast current lol
I'll let you know how some of my photos and videos come out. PS Maybe get rid of that stabilizer stick lol