GUE gear config

[Doc]

Marie, do you have any GUE training? Any time in the water with a GUE team or instructor? Or simply block every post and every comment from everyone you think has ever taken a class or been affiliated w the agency?

That’s where you make me reach for the Coke, too.

Didn’t take long. Hint to OP: Somebody else woulda’ made the above post for you.

Pull pin
toss grenade
count to three

 

[flymolo]

If you use the search function you will find quite a few threads already out there like this one, full of responses

 

[Robert H. Diver]

I learned to frog kick, back kick, helicopter kick and all those other “fancy” kicks for free…I’m still working on and “perfecting” them…but I didn’t need to pay an agency 100’s or even 1,000’s of dollars to do so. No doubt you’ll learn something from their classes, but just learning how to kick? Got my wife to video me doing different kicks and went from there…

 

[Marie13]

This OP reads like a joke, but how did you arrange to get accepted into an imminent Fundies class without already knowing a little bit about the philosophy and standardization and without having the list of required equipment from Appendix A and a plan to buy, rent or borrow it?

You would be well advised to delay the rest of your Part 1 until you become familiar with the new gear u/w and display exceptional buoyancy and trim. "Decent" buoyancy and trim and needing to "improve drastically" often don't cut it in Fundies because unless you have a stable platform (your body), buoyancy and trim can go out the window when task loaded.
Instead of spending your time and energy getting used to the new gear, you'll be able to concentrate on the new skills and have greater situational awareness.
Absolutely. But it would be best to do some research and read your course materials and make that decision for yourself.

This post pretty much hits on why I posted what I wrote. Did the OP do no homework at all going into the class? That’s the funny part.

 

[kaylee_ann]

Marie, do you have any GUE training? Any time in the water with a GUE team or instructor? Or simply block every post and every comment from everyone you think has ever taken a class or been affiliated w the agency?

i think she's saying it's easy to debate GUE configuration vs. non-GUE and people sometimes get real damn passionate on their stance lmao

 

[mariosx]

What do people think of GUE?

Answering as a GUE diver for the past year, best thing that happen in my recreational life. It transformed my skills, my philosophy approaching scuba, showed me a never ending goal of self-improvement measured with objective criteria, and introduced me to an awesome, if not the best, scuba community.

I took my GUE Fundamentals part 1 class (theory part) last night, pool session is this weekend, and basically took away all my gear is wrong / not safe / needs to be replaced lol.

I assume you didn't read the specifications of the class before paying and taking the class. Also you didn't read the material that you are supposed to before you start the class and they are provided when you registered. It's your time and money, but GUE-F requires determination and investement for both. I am not judging you, but for sure this is not an optimal start and the best way to get the best return for your time and money. Most people that took the class, including myself, spent months (if not just weeks) studying and getting mentally ready for the class finding info also from additional other sources, videos, etc related to the class.

I'm diving with jacket BC, Atomic SS1 secondary, no octopus -

Not sure if I am feeding a troll or something, but it's like you need to be present at some courtroom and getting surprised that actually getting there wearing only a condom might raise issues.

I'm pretty comfortable in the water (~250 dives now), think my buoyancy and trim is decent,

I ll' wait to hear your assesment after the first dive.

and haven't had any issues donating air the one time I had a out of gas buddy.

Things are easy when you don't have issues. Good training is for when you have issues and less luck.

I am trying the rental backplate/wing and long hose for the pool sessions - but it just seems so much clunkier and less streamlined than my current setup with the SS1?

In what sense you are more streamlined?

I do find my trim is not the best with the frontal weight pockets so am considering buying the backplate/wing if I like it, but I'm just not sold on the long hose.

Fair enough. Could you share air with your current setup with another diver, both control your buoyancy comfortably, perform control ascent, avoid entaglements, and utilize both your hands to deploy safely DSMB. If yes, you are an extremely talented diver, and so is the OOA diver you stay in contact and close proximity. Objectively though you make your life more difficult and potentially less safe without a long hose that gives you enough space to independently control your ascent, avoid entaglements, let the donor operate both their hands with no issues. Don't be afraid, and share this thought to your instructor. They should be able to show you in a much more informative way than this paragraph.

My instructor also said any wing with bungees is really bad because you can't distribute the air yourself, which is relevant when diving side mount / multiple tanks etc.

...also they create entaglement hazards, and they force the air out in case of a malfunction on the wing making you very fast negative, while without bungees you can trap some air.

My reason for signing up for GUE was mostly to get better at the different kicks, I can't do a backward or helicopter kick, and my GUE-obsessed friend insisted that it'll improve my buoyancy and trim massively.

IMo your friend is right. I am not sure how you feel very comfortable in the water without being able to stay in position and hover, but I digress. For my from the first dive I was feeling uncomfortable that I couldn't hover while my buddies could, which was fixed after 2 dives during GUE-F.

But after listening to the theory yesterday it seems a lot of why GUE does things the way they do is to set up you for later tech / cave / wreck diving, which I have no interest in.

Yes and no. I am a recreational diver and I see no safety or convinience being compromized at the low levels of GUE for potentially going tech in the future. The GUE skills and setup arguably is at least as safe and appropriate as any other setup, and for me it seems the best especially for recreational scuba. The only things that are being affected by more advanced GUE tech classes are only few procedures and placement of gear that make no difference. I am trying to convince you, you do you, but with such mentality I am afraid you have wasted some of your money and time. "DIR" is a holistic system, not simply a collection of different skills, standards, and gears that were indipedently decided. Go with an open mind, uinderstand the philosophy and after the class decide to keep the things you found useful. But while taking the class choosing what you think it's relevant while missing the big idea is not adviced.

I get the standardisation point and not having to relearn stuff as you progress, but if I already know I don't like cave / wreck and have no interest in tech, does GUE school of thought still have safety / efficiency benefits for regular recreational scuba?

You learn how to properly weight yourself, streamline your setup, minimize your vertical profile improving air consumption, clean motions to interact with your setup, safe and comfortable air sharing, hovering and assuming any position you like with millimeter accuracy, create a team oriented mentality, etc, etc, etc. On the second day of my GUE-F class I felt that I already learned more than I was hoping for.

But to get all these benefits, you need to start with an open mind, ask questions, study the material of the class, and understand the phillosophy. Unfortunately, your post doesn't indicate that this important and necessary baseline is met. If I were you I the next 2 days I would try to read the Fundamentals of Better Diving and any other material seems relevant, and check the "DIR" forum for any already answered question that you might have.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

You know, if only GUE had introduced their philosophy a little differently when they first broke into the scene it would be a lot different now.
But they didn’t.
I remember when they hit the West Coast (with a sledge hammer) in 1999 and there was this Jihad on all the internet forums all spearheaded by MHK and Jonny Walker. It was all very confrontational and testosterone driven. A lot of people got turned off and in some cases it caused a lot of animosity and contempt. It didn’t have to be like that.
So if people are wondering why the attitude towards DIR/GUE, that’s why.
No matter how good something is, you force feed it to someone or threaten them, harass them, tell them their strokes, etc. they will reject it.
It got so bad that it permanently damaged many peoples attitudes towards GUE and they will never get over it.
I hear DIR people say “oh just get over it”. Most of the new ones these days weren’t around when the DIR wars were happening so they have no clue.

There are many instructors who have adopted some of the GUE skills of the cave style of diving, feet up modified frog kicking, heli turns, back kicking, etc. anybody can learn those skills on their own if you want, you don’t need to spend money on a GUE class to be able to do those. There are plenty of You Tube videos out there that demonstrate those skills. Many people even use their existing jacket BC’s and can do all this stuff.
There is nothing wrong with standard recreational gear and there is nothing wrong with conventional hose routing as long as you know how to use it and you buddy understands it also.
The long hose is only one of several legitimate configurations. Personally, I think the 7’ hose is impractical for basic recreational non overhead diving. A 40” under the arm is plenty and the same principal with air shares.

 

[mariosx]

I learned to frog kick, back kick, helicopter kick and all those other “fancy” kicks for free…I’m still working on and “perfecting” them…but I didn’t need to pay an agency 100’s or even 1,000’s of dollars to do so. No doubt you’ll learn something from their classes, but just learning how to kick? Got my wife to video me doing different kicks and went from there…

I learned all these necessary "fancy" kicks in GUE-F in 3-4 dives, and I am not the best diver out there. I would like to see how many dives the vast majority of the divers will need to learn these kicks without spending a penny... I guess the gas will be free?

OP says that they have 200+ dives, which assuming single tank dives and counting only air, translates to 2000+$. Still they don't know these fancy kicks and they want to learn them, which means that they have tried to practice themselves and failed. With GUE they would need to spent half these money to learn these skills.

 

[NorCalDM]

This OP reads like a joke, but how did you arrange to get accepted into an imminent Fundies class without already knowing a little bit about the philosophy and standardization and without having the list of required equipment from Appendix A and a plan to buy, rent or borrow it?

You would be well advised to delay the rest of your Part 1 until you become familiar with the new gear u/w and display exceptional buoyancy and trim. "Decent" buoyancy and trim and needing to "improve drastically" often don't cut it in Fundies because unless you have a stable platform (your body), buoyancy and trim can go out the window when task loaded.
Instead of spending your time and energy getting used to the new gear, you'll be able to concentrate on the new skills and have greater situational awareness.

I have read so many posts that when people ask about improving their skills there is a flood of "you should take Fundies it will improve your skills more than any class". So now we have somebody who is taking the class to improve their skills and you are stating they should have their skills exceptional before taking the class? Which one is it?

 

[mariosx]

So if people are wondering why the attitude towards DIR/GUE, that’s why.

This seems an extremely problematic reasoning, justifying an irrational and toxic response, through the means of attempting to explain it. It's like saying "So if people are wondering why schoolshooters take a rifle and kill 4th graders, it's because they don't get enough female attention and strugle with parental relationships". Yeah, sure, but the main reason is that they are mentaly derranged people.

Just because some vocal members of the early "DIR" community existed early in the years, that don't even were members of GUE or are members of the GUE currently, justifying and dismissing standards and approached, is extremely emotional driven, and personally I would prefer to never be a buddy of such diver that puts their feefees above their and thus also my safety.

Finally, all this "attitude" towards GUE, is not towards GUE but GUE divers, unless if all the people you refer to personally spam gue's mailbox. And I don't understand why any GUE diver should show any understanding towards such toxicity just because they tried to improve themselves, which originates from a period that many of them might not even be born yet.