GUE Fundamentals

[ginti]

There was this horrible event last year, where a new very capable GUE instructor died while solo diving his rebreather due to cardiac arrest I think. Still a taboo in the community.

In Australia, right? Are you sure he was diving solo? I understood he wasn't...

 

[mariosx]

In Australia, right? Are you sure he was diving solo? I understood he wasn't...

Yeap, in Sydney. The first info was emphasizing that he was solo diving. Not sure if there were any updates or if I don't remember correctly.

 

[rjack321]

Well there have been GUE instructors solo diving in the past. If they did not endorse it openly while representing GUE, I don't think that they will be kicked out. Worst case they might have issues progressing, but I have no idea. We need more senior GUE members to answer that question.

Instructors are likely to get dropped by GUE for not being a role model. This includes personal diving - and extends beyond GUE. But that is between the instructor and their supervisors nothing student's need to worry about. Although more agencies should take GUE's lead here and remove poor instructors who can't follow standards or are poor role models for fitness, health, cave conservation, agency practices, etc. One of the worst examples was a North FL cave instructor who retained teaching status after a cocaine trafficking conviction. Sure he did his time but ughhh. Of course, there was another instructor with a robbery conviction, implicated in the death of students, who is now looking at 5 years in jail for selling CCRs to potential terrorists.... So it's a slippery judgement slope on the part of any agency on who to retain vs who to drop from the roles and for what behavior.

 

[ginti]

Yeap, in Sydney. The first info was emphasizing that he was solo diving. Not sure if there were any updates or if I don't remember correctly.

I looked for some info online... I couldn't find anywhere if he were actually diving solo or not... anyway, there's a thread about it here on SB:

Manly Beach fatality - Sydney, Australia

Diver dies after being found face down in the water near Manly Beach | Daily Mail Online A scuba diver has died after being found face down and dragged from the water at a popular Sydney beach. The NSW Ambulance Service confirmed a man was found unconscious in the water at Shelly Beach around...

scubaboard.com

I suspect that a GUE instructor diving solo would have at least some discussion with more senior staff, but this is a guess.

For sure, instructor trainers and instructor evaluators must always dive according to GUE standards, see page. 115 of the standards, section 3.4.3:

https://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v9.pdf

 

[mariosx]

Instructors are likely to get dropped by GUE for not being a role model. This includes personal diving - and extends beyond GUE. But that is between the instructor and their supervisors nothing student's need to worry about. Although more agencies should take GUE's lead here and remove poor instructors who can't follow standards or are poor role models for fitness, health, cave conservation, agency practices, etc. One of the worst examples was a North FL cave instructor who retained teaching status after a cocaine trafficking conviction. Sure he did his time but ughhh. Of course, there was another instructor with a robbery conviction, implicated in the death of students, who is now looking at 5 years in jail for selling CCRs to potential terrorists.... So it's a slippery judgement slope on the part of any agency on who to retain vs who to drop from the roles and for what behavior.

For sure, instructor trainers and instructor evaluators must always dive according to GUE standards, see page. 115 of the standards, section 3.4.3:

https://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v9.pdf

Thank you both. Good to know.

I looked for some info online... I couldn't find anywhere if he were actually diving solo or not... anyway, there's a thread about it here on SB:

Manly Beach fatality - Sydney, Australia

Diver dies after being found face down in the water near Manly Beach | Daily Mail Online A scuba diver has died after being found face down and dragged from the water at a popular Sydney beach. The NSW Ambulance Service confirmed a man was found unconscious in the water at Shelly Beach around...

scubaboard.com

I suspect that a GUE instructor diving solo would have at least some discussion with more senior staff, but this is a guess.

My memory is always pretty bad as expected. Apologies for the misinformation.

 

[ginti]

My memory is always pretty bad as expected. Apologies for the misinformation.

Not an issue; actually, the reports do not mention any buddy at all, and the first aid was provided by a free diver and some surfers. So it might be he was diving solo. But there were strong currents apparently, so he could have been diving in a team and got separated... who knows?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Although more agencies should take GUE's lead here and remove poor instructors who can't follow standards or are poor role models for fitness, health, cave conservation, agency practices, etc.

OMFG! Some agencies would implode and go out of business if that happened! There's be far fewer instructors teaching for them!

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

I'm pretty certain solo does not compute in GUE.

I am pretty sure they do not like solo too. I am SDI Solo, but I have dive buddies who are GUE.

 

[Heat Miser]

That said, I'd like to know...is the GUE instructor community known for being hostile to solo diving? Is it some sort of unspoken but commonly known 'no-no' that you don't mention that you do some solo diving (while taking a GUE course)?

Or is it just something they don't teach or endorse, so they ignore it? Anti-solo diving, or it's just not part of their agenda?

I don't know enough of the instructors or community to comment.

I looked through my course materials and the only discussion I could find on the subject is a document p 207, Beginning with the end in Mind ‐ the Fundamentals of Recreational Diving by Jesper Berglund / Liam Allen .

"For most settings, a three person team is most advantageous. This team size provides ideal redundancy, enables a high level of team integrity, and facilitates efficient relaying of information. It also offers excellent mobility, allowing divers to avoid feeling crowded during the dive. A two‐person team is also practical but lacks the added redundancy of a third team member. Conversely, a four‐person team is less optimal ‐ divers should instead opt for two ”sub‐teams” of two divers, which will allow for some separation between the teams. Diving solo completely contradicts all responsible diving practices and violates the team‐diving philosophy of GUE. "

 

[Heat Miser]

Of course, there was another instructor with a robbery conviction, implicated in the death of students, who is now looking at 5 years in jail for selling CCRs to potential terrorists.... So it's a slippery judgement slope on the part of any agency on who to retain vs who to drop from the roles and for what behavior.

Just to be clear here @rjack321 your not suggesting Sotis was GUE was he? Your just using it as an example of other agencies (IANTD) taking action for violating standards?