GUE/DIR/WKPP vs the world?

[SuPrBuGmAn]

And even the people who are part of the project can only dive the sites when the entire group is there. You can't just wake up one day and decide you want to go dive Wakulla.

Thats true for Wakulla, but not so much true for many of the other sites the WKPP has access to. Yeah, I'm jealous.

 

[Dsix36]

Am I the only one with enough balls to say it like it is???

The WKPP orginazation has been telling the state for years now that they are the only ones that are capable of doing these dives safely and that by allowing any other divers into the system would have adverse effects on the scientic studies (BFD, not doing anybody any good anyways) that they are conducting.

There is absolutely no frickin' reason that me and my buddies could not do this dive with complete safety. OK, there is always so risk to any diving, but just a safe as the GUE guys are doing it.

Sore topic = yes!

I am sure that there will be a lot of flaming headed my way now. Let it rip.

 

[sontek]

Thats true for Wakulla, but not so much true for many of the other sites the WKPP has access to. Yeah, I'm jealous.

So for the dive sites that they have closed that don't require specialized teams, what was their reasoning for closing them?

If safety is the reason, is there statistics on GUE diver incidents vs NACD and NSS-CDS?

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

So for the dive sites that they have closed that don't require specialized teams, what was their reasoning for closing them?

If safety is the reason, is there statistics on GUE diver incidents vs NACD and NSS-CDS?

Those sites haven't been open to all divers in years and years anyway. They just managed to get site access to them exclusively.

They didn't close them, they were already closed. They just got them opened to the WKPP, and IMO, talked enough trash to keep them from being opened to anyone else who've tried - see DSix36's post.

 

[Crush]

The WKPP orginazation has been telling the state for years now that they are the only ones that are capable of doing these dives safely and that by allowing any other divers into the system would have adverse effects on the scientic studies (BFD, not doing anybody any good anyways) that they are conducting.

I find that there is often a difference between what new converts to a system spout and what the system espouses in official publications. Is there any public record of such lobbying?

Not knowing much about GUE vs (say) NACD I can't see why one group can safely dive a cave system while the other cannot...

 

[Dive-aholic]

Am I the only one with enough balls to say it like it is???

The WKPP orginazation has been telling the state for years now that they are the only ones that are capable of doing these dives safely and that by allowing any other divers into the system would have adverse effects on the scientic studies (BFD, not doing anybody any good anyways) that they are conducting.

There is absolutely no frickin' reason that me and my buddies could not do this dive with complete safety. OK, there is always so risk to any diving, but just a safe as the GUE guys are doing it.

Sore topic = yes!

I am sure that there will be a lot of flaming headed my way now. Let it rip.

So how do you explain the Wakulla 1 and 2 projects and how they were able to gain access?

Not knowing much about GUE vs (say) NACD I can't see why one group can safely dive a cave system while the other cannot...

It's the way each organization is, well, organized. GUE has pretty tight control over its divers. There are certification renewal requirements. There are different standards. There are also fewer GUE divers. NACD, NSS-CDS, etc., are training agencies with conservation and education as their main focus. Could the NACD organize an effort and get a particular spring open to diving? Sure. But the NACD chooses to spread its efforts out a little more than that. The NACD hosts site clean ups at various springs. It hosts educational workshops open to anyone. It's actively looking for property with a cave on it to purchase. And the only requirement to dive it, besides the proper training qualifications and experience, will likely be to be a member of the NACD. IMO, a greater good is brought to the dive community by an approach like that rather than the approach GUE has taken. When's the last time you saw a clean up or educational workshop hosted by GUE? One that's not aimed at recruiting more students?

 

[Dsix36]

So how do you explain the Wakulla 1 and 2 projects and how they were able to gain access?




...............

This is old news. The cave was closed to everyone and the WKPP lobbied the state with their interest (scientific).

They cited their training, safety standards, numbers, plans, and all that stuff. The state agreeed to let them dive. I have no problem with that. I actually give them credit for going to the trouble and all the work to get this accomplished.

I do have a problem with how the state will only listen to the WKPP and it makes it almost impossible for any other group to get a permit.

I am not going to get into a pissing match over this. I just want to line the entire WKPP up in my crosshairs.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

When's the last time you saw a clean up or educational workshop hosted by GUE? One that's not aimed at recruiting more students?

Do the caves really need TWO agencies doing the same thing, especially when the one is really small?

 

[karstdvr]

Do the caves really need TWO agencies doing the same thing, especially when the one is really small?

You bring up a good point. Two scientific permits aren't needed when each team is doing the same work,unless different technology is involved. The WKPP has done some great work in Wakulla with mapping,exploration,and water quality,but the USDCT worked during the Wakulla 2 project by bringing in a 3D mapper. Also,the USDCT showed some viability of fully electronic rebreathers in Wakulla versus mechanical semiclosed rebreathers,this is something the WKPP may need to learn from to realisitically continue exploration.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Do the caves really need TWO agencies doing the same thing, especially when the one is really small?

Two? There are already two major organizations that are doing basically the same thing(one far more active than the other). Could a third help? Sure, they may persue the same goal from different angles and all in all will give cave divers in general a better name.