Good size lion fish at Cedral wall today

[MMM]

OTOH, yesterday we dived with our favorite DM Jorge who said he has yet to see one much less take one out. Good to hear.

Gee, Jorge is usually better at finding things than that! (And you can tell him I said that...)

I saw on my friend's Facebook page that Jeremy at Living Underwater has pulled out a half-dozen or so. There's a challenge that should give Jorge something to shoot for.

Jorge is a favourite of mine too. Last time I dived with him (Christmas/New Year), the guy who instructed HIM was on the boat. Rest of divers wanted to do second dive on a site that neither I, nor his instructor, much care for. So Jorge dropped us off first at at Chakanaab Bolognes (as I recall), then took his divers where they wanted to go (C-53), then came back for us. Worked like a charm and everyone was happy.

 

[ggunn]

Are most "americans" native to north america? No.. some people came over in boats and slaughtered everything and everyone in sight..

Ya.. We seem to just do as we please.. Regardless of what it harms. As long as it benefits our collective selves.


Think about it.. geesh..

Think about it yourself. The measures taken to remove lionfish from the reefs at Cozumel (futile as it may be in the long run), are an effort to UNDO the damage that humans have done to the Caribbean ecosystem by transplanting lionfish there from their native habitat.

BTW, are you yourself a Native American, or are you a beneficiary of the "slaughter" you claim to deplore?

 

[psychocabbage]

BTW, are you yourself a Native American, or are you a beneficiary of the "slaughter" you claim to deplore?

Neither.. My family came over in the 1960s..

I was born in Texas and have lived all over the world..

What I see is that it matters not in the long run.

 

[geokr]

Nice video! Real steady and you captured the episode from good angles and distance.

That said, what you captured on video was absolutely the WRONG way to catch a lionfish. I admired their persistance and teamwork but if that's typical of what they're doing then it's only a matter of time before one of the DMs is going to get stung and that won't be good either for them or for the cause of capturing these fish as a means of controlling them. A tissue-thin "bag", no handle to keep your hands away from the fish, no gloves....scary and a recipe for disaster. I got my sting through a very heavy guage plastic catch bag as I was closing it. Never thought a lionfish's barb could penetrate that much material. The hand signal for that event was pretty obvious - imagine playing extreme air guitar.

Having an injured hand that's pretty much useless for the next 3 hours is not helpful for the DM or the other divers. If the DMs get stung often enough they will eventually stop catching them or they will have to change their approach (if Darwin was right). There's no purpose served, either scientifically or as a means of controlling them, by catching them and bringing them back to the boat or ashore to face the same inevitable fate. They're in Cozumel now - kill them on sight (humanely, of course) and don't risk injury trying to show the world that you can control them with little plastic shopping bags. If that's what Cozumel is doing to control lionfish then the DMs are now first on the endangered species list.

Off the soapbox now. I just couldn't pass up a chance to advocate spears! If that video doesn't convince you of how futile and dangerous the current control efforts are then nothing ever will.

Nice shooting, marcus8!

 

[CZMDM]

I used to live in Naples, Florida where it was not uncommon to see a Macaw parrot flying down the street. The everglades are filled with Pythons. The jungle of Cozumel is filled with Boa's which have devastated the Green Parrot population. None of these animals are indigenous to these area's.

What I am getting at is no matter how any individual feels about the subject, nothing can stop nature. Once mating animals are introduced into an environment in which they thrive it's already too late to do anything about it. No matter how many Lionfish we kill...the area is too vast and the fish are there eating and breeding 24/7/365. You cannot stop nature from taking it's course once something like this has happened.

 

[mikerault]

It can be hoped that once the native fish populations decline the natural preidtors will start eating the Lionfish and restoer balance. In their native waters these Lionfish are only at 3.1 per hec, in some spots in the Caribbean theyh have been counted at over 300. Sorry, I side with kill as many of the little (or not so little) b@@tards and eat them as possible.

 

[Sue Sue]

I used to live in Naples, Florida where it was not uncommon to see a Macaw parrot flying down the street. The everglades are filled with Pythons. The jungle of Cozumel is filled with Boa's which have devastated the Green Parrot population. None of these animals are indigenous to these area's.

What I am getting at is no matter how any individual feels about the subject, nothing can stop nature. Once mating animals are introduced into an environment in which they thrive it's already too late to do anything about it. No matter how many Lionfish we kill...the area is too vast and the fish are there eating and breeding 24/7/365. You cannot stop nature from taking it's course once something like this has happened.

I have been reading this thread from the beginning and must say that this is the most logical statement made so far. However, on the other hand, if capturing the lionfish and taking them off the reef is done in an approved and safe manner, why not? At least folks will be making some sort of attempt in hope that it works. In the end, the exercise may be futile, however, we can go down at least trying.

 

[DandyDon]

I used to live in Naples, Florida where it was not uncommon to see a Macaw parrot flying down the street. The everglades are filled with Pythons. The jungle of Cozumel is filled with Boa's which have devastated the Green Parrot population. None of these animals are indigenous to these area's.

What I am getting at is no matter how any individual feels about the subject, nothing can stop nature. Once mating animals are introduced into an environment in which they thrive it's already too late to do anything about it. No matter how many Lionfish we kill...the area is too vast and the fish are there eating and breeding 24/7/365. You cannot stop nature from taking it's course once something like this has happened.

If we don't try, nothing gets better.

If we do try, then there is a chance. In some cases we have to find and import the predators, make sure they won't cause more harm - like mongooses have done on island. In Texas, we're introducing a wasp that kills only the S.A.Fire Ant which has been devastating areas.

It can be hoped that once the native fish populations decline the natural preidtors will start eating the Lionfish and restoer balance. In their native waters these Lionfish are only at 3.1 per hec, in some spots in the Caribbean theyh have been counted at over 300. Sorry, I side with kill as many of the little (or not so little) b@@tards and eat them as possible.

They're very easy to catch up to. No sling needed. Just a jab stick should suffice. Use one with a smooth point, kill it, push it off with your dive light.

 

[mstevens]

I think lionfish are one of God's amazing and beautiful creatures and should be left to thrive in peace - where they belong, in the Pacific.

My personal suspicion is that, as with many invasive species (kudzu, anyone?) there's sod-all that we can do to eradicate lionfish from ecosystems where they don't belong. However, it certainly won't harm the native fauna if lionfish are hunted.

There's nothing more wrong with capturing or killing a lionfish in Cozumel than a zebra mussel in the Great Lakes. Some are opposed to all hunting, but in that case it shouldn't matter whether it's a lionfish or a lamprey.

Nobody here is calling for hunting splendid toadfish. It's more that they would deeply regret the disappearance of the splendid toadfish because all the fry were being snarfed up by lionfish, and wouldn't regret at all if the only place you could see a lionfish in the wild were thousands of miles away where it belings.

 

[geokr]

I have been reading this thread from the beginning and must say that this is the most logical statement made so far. However, on the other hand, if capturing the lionfish and taking them off the reef is done in an approved and safe manner, why not? At least folks will be making some sort of attempt in hope that it works. In the end, the exercise may be futile, however, we can go down at least trying.

Agreed and now is the time to start trying something that works. Eradicating them from the entire Gulf, Caribbean and Atlantic would surely be impossible. Until something comes up from the scientific community that controls them they are just going to keep spreading and doing more damage wherever they are. But....controlling them in the park is feasible, even though there is a lot of acreage out there to patrol, and it can only be done when an efficient means of eradicating them is employed on a continual basis. Netting them is a huge waste of time and resources and will never get rid of more fish than will keep coming in from outside of the park, to say nothing of the hazard it poses to the netters. DMs along with trained recreational divers can provide effective controls with spears without danger to anyone except the lionfish who are going to start taking over real soon. This process is being effectively employed elsewhere in the Caribbean. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. You can control them if you are willing to learn from the experience of others (Bahamas, Bermuda, Caymans....) and start doing the right things before it's too late.

Here's how to do it:



Two recreational divers with slings are safely working the same coral head (note that it's crawling with lionfish - standby for that, Cozumel). You can hear from the "thwacks" that they can get one every 30 seconds or less. You can't net them that fast and the OPs video proves it. The sling was from Divers Supply and you can see them at Jbl 6 Ft Travel Polespear at Divers-Supply.com Cheap, easy to travel with and safe to use even in a crowd as the video shows. You don't have to bag them (we ate all we caught that day) just leave them on the bottom.

This is what it's going to take, IMO, because there's nothing else that will work as effectively. If you want to see lionfish all over the reefs like you see in this video from the Bahamas last Nov then keep trying to net them. If you want any possible control you'll have to do what everyone else is doing - declare open season on them and save the park.