Going doubles - questions

[Gilldiver]

TDL is listing twin sets (tanks, bands, manifold) as
faber lp85's at $791
faber lp95's at $851
above plus shipping

single faber hp100's run about 312 each, so figure a grand by the time you are done plus shipping.

check out this board and some others and look for used twins. Y should be able to save at least 500 or more.

Aslo, look for divers swap meets, lots of good deals.

 

[Otto]

"The fabers will likely fail the first or second hydro" That's Bull S**t. Faber probably sells more steel tanks world wide than anyone else. Go over to the thedecostop.com and search, or ask the question. Then contact techdivinglimited.com, the largest Faber dealer in the US and ask them. And while I can't recomend it (nudge nudge wink wink), and I understand why your local shop may not do it, it has been common practice for a long time to "get a good fill" in some areas of the country. As to the lp 85's, they rock. Same size as the aluminum 80's, that are really 77's, and unlike a s80 they are neutraly boyant. Note that Luxfer makes an s80n that is neutyral boyant but still only holds 77 cubic ft. and while that makes them great as singles or doubles there not so great for stage or deco bottles. As noted by another poster, it sounds like mix, ( and a scooter, can light, 2 backup lights, reels, spools, lift bag, safety sausage, camera, several stage/deco bottles) may be in your future. As has been mentioned before, you and your partner nedd to get things sized so that you have the same bottom time and enough bail out gas. Don't forget the back exercises. Nothing wrong with buying used either. Just bought twin lp 85's 05 hydro $500. Keep shopping!

 

[Scared Silly]

I think worthington might have some LP85's that are galvanized, but I think they cost more than the fabers

Yup and if you do some looking you can find the for $200 a pop. Some places even had free shipping.

 

[jduncan]

"The fabers will likely fail the first or second hydro" That's Bull S**t. Faber probably sells more steel tanks world wide than anyone else. Go over to the thedecostop.com and search, or ask the question. Then contact techdivinglimited.com, the largest Faber dealer in the US and ask them. And while I can't recomend it (nudge nudge wink wink), and I understand why your local shop may not do it, it has been common practice for a long time to "get a good fill" in some areas of the country. As to the lp 85's, they rock. Same size as the aluminum 80's, that are really 77's, and unlike a s80 they are neutraly boyant. Note that Luxfer makes an s80n that is neutyral boyant but still only holds 77 cubic ft. and while that makes them great as singles or doubles there not so great for stage or deco bottles. As noted by another poster, it sounds like mix, ( and a scooter, can light, 2 backup lights, reels, spools, lift bag, safety sausage, camera, several stage/deco bottles) may be in your future. As has been mentioned before, you and your partner nedd to get things sized so that you have the same bottom time and enough bail out gas. Don't forget the back exercises. Nothing wrong with buying used either. Just bought twin lp 85's 05 hydro $500. Keep shopping!

Yeah I though that the hydro failure comment was strange. He was pretty sure about it. On his side, he's the one doing the hydros, and he's got nothing to gain by saying this- he sells both cylinder brands. I know Faber is a great name in tanks, and I was suprised about this comment, too. We have a pair of HP100 and pair of HP80 and love them. A little heavy for doubles. I'll drill him again about it.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Okay - So I called the LDS today to inquire about the LP85 setup. He said that he'd be happy to get me a quote on those, and he actually had some there - but claims that they will fail hydro in the first or second inspection. He was talking about the Fabers. He also said that most people like them because they can be overfilled, and that he won't fill them past the 2400 + 10%...so unless I have my own compressor, forget it.

When asked what he recommended, he said he would go worthington HP80 for Lisa and HP100 for me. So...I thought I would bring THAT to the board for digestion!

Thoughts? They are not quite as heavy as the Fabers, and about 1/3 less negative full.

Also, he was nice enough to state he would rig up all three types of doubles for us to try, possibly this weekend.

J

Maybe a different shop would give you a 'good fill'? Also be aware that if you go with different tanks for you and the missus, you will need to do gas matching. Not a big deal, but still needs to be done to keep enough gas in reserve.

Fabers are good tanks and your LDS seems to have either seen a bad one or two, or has something else going (maybe over stocked on Worthingtons and wants to off load them, makes more margin on the Worthingtons, etc). Ask him where he got the inclination that Fabers are sub-standard to the extend that they only last to the first hydro.....

 

[Gilldiver]

I hear everyone talking about how boyant or negative their tanks are, but by how much in the real world.

For every set and configuration of tanks that I use I have found out just what they are:

Dress out your tanks with everything that will be on them - Take your tank/double set and drain it down to 300-500 psi, put on the regs, BC, backplate, pockets, lift bags, you name it. Now throw them into a pool and see what happends, just make sure you work out all the traped air. You are trying to make them as close as possable to what you will see at the end of a 4- minute dive.

I will use a fishing scale (the one you hang fish on) to measure the +- of the set.

My 80's in fresh water are just about neutral with a good bottom up movement. If left along that will sit just on the surface bottom up. Strap on a 2# weight at the bottom and they trim out and are now just negative. So with the 80's I do not put on any extra weight.

I then get in the pool with my wet and dry suits and figure out exactly what I need to sink each and figure out what I realy need for each configuration of tanks and suits. It look like this:

Wet Suit Dry Suit (heavy underwear)
125 Tank Twin 80's 125 Tank Twin 80's
Weight Required to be
Neutral without tanks 30 30 39 39
Weight of Back Plate -6 0 -6 0
Weight of V Weights -3 -9 -3 -9

Weight Required for
Neutral Balance with
Empty Tanks 21 21 30 30

 

[jduncan]

I hear everyone talking about how boyant or negative their tanks are, but by how much in the real world.

For every set and configuration of tanks that I use I have found out just what they are:

Dress out your tanks with everything that will be on them - Take your tank/double set and drain it down to 300-500 psi, put on the regs, BC, backplate, pockets, lift bags, you name it. Now throw them into a pool and see what happends, just make sure you work out all the traped air. You are trying to make them as close as possable to what you will see at the end of a 4- minute dive.

I will use a fishing scale (the one you hang fish on) to measure the +- of the set.

My 80's in fresh water are just about neutral with a good bottom up movement. If left along that will sit just on the surface bottom up. Strap on a 2# weight at the bottom and they trim out and are now just negative. So with the 80's I do not put on any extra weight.

I then get in the pool with my wet and dry suits and figure out exactly what I need to sink each and figure out what I realy need for each configuration of tanks and suits. It look like this:

Wet Suit Dry Suit (heavy underwear)
125 Tank Twin 80's 125 Tank Twin 80's
Weight Required to be
Neutral without tanks 30 30 39 39
Weight of Back Plate -6 0 -6 0
Weight of V Weights -3 -9 -3 -9

Weight Required for
Neutral Balance with
Empty Tanks 21 21 30 30

Okay I'm trying to figure out how that's going to help me decide on what tanks to buy. Basically, I use the manufacturer stated buoyancy as a guide, when comparing to other same sized tanks. I'll figure the actual offsets later.

J

 

[Meng_Tze]

Okay I'm trying to figure out how that's going to help me decide on what tanks to buy. Basically, I use the manufacturer stated buoyancy as a guide, when comparing to other same sized tanks. I'll figure the actual offsets later.

J

It doesn't, every person is different and thus what you need will be different. The manufacturer specs are a good point to start your own weighting set from.

 

[limeyx]

It doesn't, every person is different and thus what you need will be different. The manufacturer specs are a good point to start your own weighting set from.

Exactly. And if you know your weighting in say the LP85's and then dive another setup, you can use it as a quick "got to add/subtract" x pounds for an initial guess.

Unless you can get reliable High pressure fills, I just dont see the HP-80's being a good choice, especially if the "HP" fill is not allowed to cool and be topped off.

Extremely rare that I get in the water with anything over 3200 around here (unless the fill guy "forgets" the compressor is on and only notices when it hits 4000 psi -- but that's another case!)

 

[Meng_Tze]

jduncan,
It really is a wash in the end. You will buy tanks that you feel you need (either with long term in view or not) and buy more down the line and sell some others. Go with what you need in terms of gas and start practicing.