Gilboa Again!!?

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We didn't say that this person *had faulty gear*. We said that *many divers* down there had inadequate gear and training for that depth and temperature combination and that is a fact! BTW,



Are the instructors taking seriously the cold on the AOW dives and making sure the students have regs with cold water specs? And seeing as how there have been several free flows at this particular spot, one would assume that it would be covered in pre-dive. It's amazing what covering something in pre-dive will do with respect to being taken by surprise and helping with preventing panic.
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...


The name is on the Gilboa map.

I would have have named it differently but it's Mike's hole and he can name it after Joe Jackson if he wants to. LOL

It's not on the maps I've seen handed out.
gilboamap.jpg


Are you referring to the wall map that used to hang in the old office and was donated by a divemaster class from SE OHIO?
 
MikeFerrara once bubbled...

IMO, the big problem is these divers are taking advanced classes and doing deep dives BEFORE they learn to do a shallow dive.

Isn't a "deep dive" a required part of the AOW course? A friend of mine took a PADI AOW class last summer and they did one but I'm not sure if was a requirement or an elective. If it was a requirement then that makes the "not happy with your OW class... take an AOW class!" advice somewhat questionable.

Cornfed
 
O-ring once bubbled...

So it sounds like an equipment (quality/maintenance) issue then? That is no colder than our quarry and I never hear about freeflow incidents down there...we logged 41 degrees at 90' in Millbrook on Saturday..

They probably happen and you just don't hear about them unless they go really south, like this one apparently did.

When I was at Bainbridge PA a couple of weeks ago someone's reg froze up on them. The group was headed to the area he had just come from and we warned them it was in the mid 40's at 65 ft. We hadn’t even gotten all our gear off when a couple of them came back. We joking asked if one of them had forgotten their weight belt or something and they said, “Nope, regs froze up and started to free-flow.” After talking to them for a minute it became apparent that it was crappy equipment.

All things considered the woman who experienced the free flow was pretty lucky. Her buddy freaked out but someone else in the group grabbed the reigns and avoided a major CF.

Cornfed
 
O-ring once bubbled...

Isn't that Michael Jackson's father?

Joe Jackson was also the name of a Pro Baseball Player, he played for the Chicago White Sox (Black Sox). He was accussed of fixing the world series (he was playing in it) back in 1919 (I think) there is an excellent movie out there called "Eight Men Out" that tells the story of it.


Dale S
 
Epinephelus once bubbled...

The extension of the handling of public safety issues on public roadways into strictly elective recreational activities on private property is an invitation to government meddling where government doesn't belong - and the eventual loss of our freedom to play the way we want to. Keep 'em OUT!
E.

Hey Epinephelus, you aren't one of those "people's militia types" are you? Driving never used to be regulated, but now is.

However, I am not saying more regulations, I am saying lets stand back and assess the situation, to see if anything can be made safer.

Dale

p.s I was kidding abouut the Militia thing
 
Yes Mike I am working on my instructors and it is going well (send money} as far as the rest of the comments if I offended anyone I apologize. My goal was not to offend and after reading all this today I think I will just go back to reading instead of contributing
As always I value this site and continue to find it informative.

:)
 
tacmed once bubbled...
Yes Mike I am working on my instructors and it is going well (send money} as far as the rest of the comments if I offended anyone I apologize. My goal was not to offend and after reading all this today I think I will just go back to reading instead of contributing
As always I value this site and continue to find it informative.

:)

Before you go underground, can you clue us in on what happened here? Your previous comments leave us wondering what actually happened.

Not the gear.
Not the instructor.
Not the training.

We can only guess what is left here. You're his buddy. Let us know.
 
well from what the diver was saying he messed up bolted for the surface. I guess the instructor cought him but was unable to stop him The diver says he was going up no matter what and the instructor managed to slow his rate if not arrest it. It was becouse the instructor kept his cool that the situation wasnt worse and i credit the instructor for what he did.
 
well so far after reading all of this discussion, I have come to the conclusion that nobody has the answers to safe scuba. If you think about it people, scuba is not safe. But neither is driving a car, flying in an airplane, going to work, or even attending school. I mean get real guys. you can go ahead and blame the gear, the instructor, the quarry, the pre dive briefing, or even (heaven forbid) the diver. Were we not all new divers in every aspect of our highest level of training. I don't know about you, but when I did my first cold water deep dive with my instructors, yes two of them, and a divemaster, I was still nervous as hell. And I am as comfortable and just as able as any other diver out there. It is very easy to get panicked in a situation like that.

Sure you can make people wear seatbelts and add airbags, or put metal detectors in schools, or even search every single person that gets on a plane, but the fact of the matter is, there are still going to be accidents and things slipping through the cracks. The point is, that diving is not exactly the safest thing to do, no matter how much you try to convince yourself that it is because of your training, experience, and excellent gear. Anything can happen to anyone at any given moment.

So what happens when it happens to you or someone you know. Who you gonna blame then? Your instructor, your dive buddy, your gear, the body of water, or you? Sometimes things just happen.

You say it all has to do with training and lack of skills and control from the instructor. I know an instructor who was very lax in his training techniques. ie: letting divemasters teach his classes, Skipping classroom and confined water and going right into open waters, and just plain disregarding any liability or care for his students. He has trained many many many students and has never had an incident. Good teaching skills you ask? I don't think so. Just plain lucky. Now I know another instructor who does a very excellent job. Very thourough, caring, and is very compassionate about his students. This instructor has had an incident similar to this. Good training skills you ask? Absolutely. Just unlucky for that to happen to him.

Have we not learned as a society that no matter what the activity is, there is always going to be something going wrong somewhere. Accept the fact that in a perfect world things like this wouldn't happen. This ain't exactly a perfect world though, is it?

So if "you think you know" all of the answers. And you know the people I'm referring to. Please, think again.
 
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