uthinkuno once bubbled...
Mike, I don't think your opinion offends anyone. It just makes professionals like me wonder what a scuba god like you would do in a situation that you couldn't control. As I said before, we were all new in all aspects in our highest level of training. I too am an instructor and have had the luck and satisfaction of never having a student get hurt. I instruct 75 + students a year. How many do you do? I have however had students panick and try to bolt for the surface. Some of them I can control and some of them I can't. I do not let students in an uncontrolled environment unless I feel they are ready. Now if that means giving them extra pool sessions to get past their problems for free, then so be it. It has been like that since day one. Still, with the numbers I do, something is going to happen eventually. Even with the students that perform above standards in the pool. The fact of the matter is, that no matter how ready you think your students are, there is always a chance that something is going to go wrong.
Well, I'm not a scuba god and I try to know my limits which is the reason mony of my methods and decissions. As far as the number of students I teach in a year...I have done over 100 in a single year. Last year was down because business stunk and this year will be down because I'm closing the shop I own. I teach up to Advanced nitrox and assist in tech classes to 170 so I'm no stranger to teaching at those depths.
My first experience with a panicked totally out of control diver was at 65 feet when I was a divemaster candidate. the diver was on their first post cert dive, lost control, sunk and panicked. My second was also as a DM candidate with another diver on their first post cert dive at 75 ft in the gilf of Mexico.
Those two near misses did a lot to form my opinions about dive training. I know what went wrong with these two students and I try not to make the mistakes that instructor did.
I'm happy that you have never had a problem, and I hope you never do, because that would make you even more humble. You better open up your eyes and get real, because if you think that just because you are the great instructor you think you are (and I'm not saying you're not), that nothing will ever happen to one of your students, then you got another thing coming. Eventually if you do this long enough, something is going to happen whether it is during training or after.
In addition to the students I mentioned above. I have only had two of my own students out of several hundred (not sure exactly how many) panick and bolt. The first was a student in a rescue class that messes up air sharing swallowed some water and bolted. While I wasn't able to get the student to accept a reg I was able to control her ascent rate.
The secont was an OW student who got some water in her nose when replacing her mask and bolted. She was very strong and not only spit out her reg but knocked my reg out as well. However I was able to control her ascent rate because of the line I had put in place for that purpose (just in case).
Since I believed what I had been tought as a new instructor and tought the way I was tought to teach, I think it's nothing short of a miracle that none of my early students were hurt. I don't in fact trust the standards and the length of time I can spend with the average student to properly prepare them. that's one of the reasons our shop closes next month. Great instructor? No, but getting better.
You stated before that you would quit diving if you thought that anything could happen at any time. I'd get out of the water now pal, cuz it can. I've seen it with the best and with the worst. The sooner you realize that anything can happen at any time regardless of how good the instruction, the better the instructor you become.
Things can go wrong on a dive. However if we don't believe we can manage them we're not prepared for the diver we're doing. Aside from teaching I'm no stranger to less than perfect dives including 1/4 mile back in a cave. I wasn't good enough to prevent that one but I was prepared enough to manage it. It was cause for thought though.
As far as being scared of AOW classes, you should be. We all are. But you know what? To stay out of the water because they are there is nothing to me but a cop out and cowardly. Again, as I stated before we were all new at one point. Except for you because you must be the excption to the rule. I think if you are as good as you say you are then you need to be there helping when things do go wrong. I know I would be. I have assisted in a few rescues that were not involved with my group because I was there and had the confidence to know that if something does go wrong (which it will) I can handle it (which I did). Another fact... You don't find out how good you really are until a problem arises. Until then, you really don't know.
As stated before I have assisted divers in trouble and several times it was some one elses students. I'm not an exception to any rule. Certainly if I am present and can help I would. However I am often with students and if I can avoid it I won't allow the judgment of another instructor put my student at additional risk as they would be if I got busy rescueing some one elses. That's why if there is an advanced class on the deep side of Gilboa I won't go in the water. Bravery isn't the issue. My resposibility to my students is the issue. Of course there is also the fact that much of what goes on in training (and I've seen lots of it on the deep side of Gilboa) causes me personal worry. I can't control it so I try to avoid it.
BTW, I don't take students there except during Advanced Nitrox classes. They are in doubles and have spent quit a few hours drilling in shallow water. One of them might still panick but they are at this point far far more skilled than the average AOW student (or for that matter the average recreational diver). I did have one advanced nitrox student have a free flow down there at about 115 ft. He was a little nervous and fumbled a bit shutting down that post so he calmly asked me to help. Throughout his depth only verried by a few inches. We still did a bunch more valve shut down work before he got a card though. I dived with him week before last. His valve work has slowed down again. We're planning a cave diving trip next month and he'll need to get his skills back in shape before I go in a cave with him. Do you see the difference?
Now, please don't take offense to anything I say. This is just my opinion and I don't know you from Adam. I am just responding with my opinion like many others. I think much of what you say is right on the mark, but I also think you are dilusioned in other things you say. But I do know that just from talking to many other instructors in my life, most share my opinion rather than yours. So don't be over confindent. Be ready to handle anything that can happen. If you think it can't happen to you or your students, think again. Just be ready man.
I'm not offended in the least. I'm anything but over confident. In fact, I'm a bit paranoid and I'm convinced that if I continue to teach under the financial and market burdens (students in a hurry) of the recreational dive industry some one will get hurt.
As far as PADI standards go, they have some of the best instructinal material out there. But you know what. It's really not the organization. It's the instructor. I've known some pretty horrible PADI instructors and some pretty great PADI instructors. I've learned that it doesn't matter what organization you teach through, because they all teach the same thing pretty much the same way with some minor differences.
Safe diving.
The PADI books are much nicer than some others.
I don't understand doing deep dives without teaching any meaningful gas management. I don't understand how the agency can allow an instructor to teach at 100 ft when they can become an instructor with only one dive below 60 ft and zero teaching experience at that 100ft. I also don't understand standards that allow a student to go from kneeling on a platform on OW dive 4 to a 100 ft dive on their very next dive. The intent of the standards while not perfect aren't too bad but the agencies do little that I see to make sure instructors are in compliance with the intent of the standards at a minimum.
Thanks for offering your opinion.
