ScubaSeanMaui
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We were are the Marine Room in La Jolla intending to dive in the canyon.
Getting through Rough Surf?
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Big surf... it just maters what part of the wave hits you...
i been through 4-5 foot surf with ease... long set easy to time
i allsow been thour 2-3 foot surf that wiped me out... odd sets comming it.. some of the waves doubling up one poor me...
just last week i went though 2-3 foot surf and we helping a new diver out( pulling him out) and he wasked us at the end wow was that 6 foot surf.. i sayed no but the waves just did not like you today...
Bottom line... Know your limits.. i allwys keep my bodyboard and fin in the back so if i cant dive i can ride
i been through 4-5 foot surf with ease... long set easy to time
i allsow been thour 2-3 foot surf that wiped me out... odd sets comming it.. some of the waves doubling up one poor me...
just last week i went though 2-3 foot surf and we helping a new diver out( pulling him out) and he wasked us at the end wow was that 6 foot surf.. i sayed no but the waves just did not like you today...
Bottom line... Know your limits.. i allwys keep my bodyboard and fin in the back so if i cant dive i can ride
ok, not easy, but safe. I'm pretty passionate about this subject because I used to be TERRIBLE at beach diving and, as we all know, no one is more of a zealot than a reformed smoker, or drinker,...or beach diver.
First, you should be watching the conditions for 20 minutes before entering. Everyone hears this in the OW course, but few experienced divers (me included) do it religiously. You need at least 20 minutes to get a sense of whether waves are building or not, which is the only way to get a sense of what it'll be like an hour or two later when you exit.
The thing to remember about waves is that all the energy is at the top; that's why it makes sense to dive under the waves. The other thing to remember about surf entries is that the goal is to minimize your time in the surf zone. It shouldn't take more than 10 - 20 seconds to get through the surf zone.
BEFORE ENTERING: Mask around your neck, not on your face, so you don't lose it in the surf. Neither reg or snorkel is in your mouth...lot's of people enter with masks on and regs in their mouth, but I've heard about at least one diver that embolized as a result of breathing just as a wave descended. The timing would have to be about perfect for this to happen but, since you don't really need it, why take the risk? Hold a fin in each hand by something secure, like a strap. A wave can very easily rip one from your fingers if you only hold it by the blade. Make sure your BC is FULLY DEFLATED ... if you need to dive under a wave you don't want an 'inner tube' around your body. A couple of years ago a guy bullied his instructor to take him into large surf. His BC wasn't deflated, a 12-footer came along, picked him up and dumped him on his head forcefully, killing him.
ENTERING: Wait for the lull and walk quickly to chest high depth; stop shallower and the water won't support you, which makes you unstable and more likely to fall over. Be careful to judge "chest" deep at it's lowest point (just before a wave gets to you). Many people stop too soon, then find themselves unexpectedly in knee deep water with a wave heading their way. If you have trouble staying in contact with the bottom just bounce a bit.
Keep an eye on the waves at all times. If a wave is a "round one" simply bob over it. If a wave looks like a "flat one" then you need to go under it ... the backwash will make it impossible to run from all but the smallest waves. To duck under it simply go down on ONE knee (not two, don't dive under it head first); this leaves you ideally positioned to stand back up quickly and get going. Ducking under a wave is easier than you might think, because the wave actually 'sucks' you under it and spits you out the back side (also why you can't run from it). If you mis-judge the "chest high" point in the paragraph above and see a flat wave coming, you need to run at it QUICKLY before ducking under it. All the stuff I see about "bracing yourself" against a wave or 2 buddies holding onto each other for balance doesn't work; the ocean is just too powerful. Pasley's comment, about taking a wave in sideways versus front/back, is a good one for smaller waves you can't duck under.
It should take you 5 - 10 seconds at most to put your fins on. That means no fiddling with buckles, straps, or adjustments. You should have your fin straps set to the proper setting before you enter ... I even duct tape mine (mostly to keep them from snagging kelp). This seems to be where new beach divers run into trouble, messing around with all the innovative snaps that the manufacturers insist on but aren't really needed. Put your fins on by having one leg for a "figure 4", using the opposite hand to QUICKLY slip it on. I like to hold my fins by the straps, with the tops facing my body, because it seems to work well with the 'figure 4.". Practice it in a pool, in chest deep water (away from the pool rail) until it becomes second nature, taking only a few seconds and without any need to look down.
Once you have your fins on, get on your back, kick hard for 15 - 20 feet, inflating your BC once you're sure you are past the surf zone.
EXITING: Pretty much the reverse of the above. I like to come to 6 - 7' of depth on scuba before ascending, just to avoid the surface swim. If you do a surface swim, it's a good idea to snorkel in because you can easily see the depth. Just as above, stop in chest-deep water, deflate your BC COMPLETELY (many people forget this, then panic because they can't touch bottom easily), take your reg our of your mouth, and put your mask around your neck before taking off your fins. Again, don't fiddle with buckles unless you simply can't get the darn things off. If you mis-judge the depth and get too deep either "bounce" shallower or, if you're waaaayyy too deep, put a fin at the end of each arm and use them to paddle shallower. The SOCDC teaches people to stop past the surf zone then paddle to standing depth this way which is ok, but is slower, takes more energy, and can make it look like you're signalling for help to people on the beach.
Timing waves on the way out is a bit more difficult, simply because of the lower vantage point, but the process is basically the same. Wait for a smaller wave, then use it to "push" you up towards the beach. If you have to duck under a wave while waiting for the lull, remember that it will push you shallower and you need to compensate by running back to chest depth. People sometimes do a great job ducking under a wave, forget this, then get pounded by the next big one. Don't be in a hurry to exit after you've ducked a wave or two; I've had to wait out a set of 12 before exiting. People get nervous, then "bolt" for the beach at a bad time.
Once you make a decision to exit, it's all asses and elbows; Pump your legs hard to get out of the last few feet of water and onto the beach. NEVER take your eyes off the surf until you are on dry land; can't tell you how many people do everything right, forget about the last 2 feet of waves, and get knocked over by a small wave that hits them in the back of knees and topples them (like your friends used to do to you in high school). Some people prefer to exit sideways, bouncing out, but I find it better to run forward looking sideways at the water.
If all else fails and you DO get knocked down, stay calm and crawl like a baby on all 4's; safety, not style, matters. Also try to remember that waves last only a few seconds and that even the most pathetic person can hold their breath for a minute. Finally, write you name and number on your gear; the ocean giveth and the ocean taketh, especially if you are a beach diver!
You'll hear instructors teaching students to back out of waves with their fins on .... Rodale's sometimes runs an article that teaches this ... but ignore them. It makes you much slower and less steady in the surf zone, where you need to be fast and solid. I think that's why the article is accompanied by photos of people exiting from a lake with no waves. Two weeks ago we saw an entire class, including the instructor, get knocked down by a 2'wave using this technique.
Good luck!
First, you should be watching the conditions for 20 minutes before entering. Everyone hears this in the OW course, but few experienced divers (me included) do it religiously. You need at least 20 minutes to get a sense of whether waves are building or not, which is the only way to get a sense of what it'll be like an hour or two later when you exit.
The thing to remember about waves is that all the energy is at the top; that's why it makes sense to dive under the waves. The other thing to remember about surf entries is that the goal is to minimize your time in the surf zone. It shouldn't take more than 10 - 20 seconds to get through the surf zone.
BEFORE ENTERING: Mask around your neck, not on your face, so you don't lose it in the surf. Neither reg or snorkel is in your mouth...lot's of people enter with masks on and regs in their mouth, but I've heard about at least one diver that embolized as a result of breathing just as a wave descended. The timing would have to be about perfect for this to happen but, since you don't really need it, why take the risk? Hold a fin in each hand by something secure, like a strap. A wave can very easily rip one from your fingers if you only hold it by the blade. Make sure your BC is FULLY DEFLATED ... if you need to dive under a wave you don't want an 'inner tube' around your body. A couple of years ago a guy bullied his instructor to take him into large surf. His BC wasn't deflated, a 12-footer came along, picked him up and dumped him on his head forcefully, killing him.
ENTERING: Wait for the lull and walk quickly to chest high depth; stop shallower and the water won't support you, which makes you unstable and more likely to fall over. Be careful to judge "chest" deep at it's lowest point (just before a wave gets to you). Many people stop too soon, then find themselves unexpectedly in knee deep water with a wave heading their way. If you have trouble staying in contact with the bottom just bounce a bit.
Keep an eye on the waves at all times. If a wave is a "round one" simply bob over it. If a wave looks like a "flat one" then you need to go under it ... the backwash will make it impossible to run from all but the smallest waves. To duck under it simply go down on ONE knee (not two, don't dive under it head first); this leaves you ideally positioned to stand back up quickly and get going. Ducking under a wave is easier than you might think, because the wave actually 'sucks' you under it and spits you out the back side (also why you can't run from it). If you mis-judge the "chest high" point in the paragraph above and see a flat wave coming, you need to run at it QUICKLY before ducking under it. All the stuff I see about "bracing yourself" against a wave or 2 buddies holding onto each other for balance doesn't work; the ocean is just too powerful. Pasley's comment, about taking a wave in sideways versus front/back, is a good one for smaller waves you can't duck under.
It should take you 5 - 10 seconds at most to put your fins on. That means no fiddling with buckles, straps, or adjustments. You should have your fin straps set to the proper setting before you enter ... I even duct tape mine (mostly to keep them from snagging kelp). This seems to be where new beach divers run into trouble, messing around with all the innovative snaps that the manufacturers insist on but aren't really needed. Put your fins on by having one leg for a "figure 4", using the opposite hand to QUICKLY slip it on. I like to hold my fins by the straps, with the tops facing my body, because it seems to work well with the 'figure 4.". Practice it in a pool, in chest deep water (away from the pool rail) until it becomes second nature, taking only a few seconds and without any need to look down.
Once you have your fins on, get on your back, kick hard for 15 - 20 feet, inflating your BC once you're sure you are past the surf zone.
EXITING: Pretty much the reverse of the above. I like to come to 6 - 7' of depth on scuba before ascending, just to avoid the surface swim. If you do a surface swim, it's a good idea to snorkel in because you can easily see the depth. Just as above, stop in chest-deep water, deflate your BC COMPLETELY (many people forget this, then panic because they can't touch bottom easily), take your reg our of your mouth, and put your mask around your neck before taking off your fins. Again, don't fiddle with buckles unless you simply can't get the darn things off. If you mis-judge the depth and get too deep either "bounce" shallower or, if you're waaaayyy too deep, put a fin at the end of each arm and use them to paddle shallower. The SOCDC teaches people to stop past the surf zone then paddle to standing depth this way which is ok, but is slower, takes more energy, and can make it look like you're signalling for help to people on the beach.
Timing waves on the way out is a bit more difficult, simply because of the lower vantage point, but the process is basically the same. Wait for a smaller wave, then use it to "push" you up towards the beach. If you have to duck under a wave while waiting for the lull, remember that it will push you shallower and you need to compensate by running back to chest depth. People sometimes do a great job ducking under a wave, forget this, then get pounded by the next big one. Don't be in a hurry to exit after you've ducked a wave or two; I've had to wait out a set of 12 before exiting. People get nervous, then "bolt" for the beach at a bad time.
Once you make a decision to exit, it's all asses and elbows; Pump your legs hard to get out of the last few feet of water and onto the beach. NEVER take your eyes off the surf until you are on dry land; can't tell you how many people do everything right, forget about the last 2 feet of waves, and get knocked over by a small wave that hits them in the back of knees and topples them (like your friends used to do to you in high school). Some people prefer to exit sideways, bouncing out, but I find it better to run forward looking sideways at the water.
If all else fails and you DO get knocked down, stay calm and crawl like a baby on all 4's; safety, not style, matters. Also try to remember that waves last only a few seconds and that even the most pathetic person can hold their breath for a minute. Finally, write you name and number on your gear; the ocean giveth and the ocean taketh, especially if you are a beach diver!
You'll hear instructors teaching students to back out of waves with their fins on .... Rodale's sometimes runs an article that teaches this ... but ignore them. It makes you much slower and less steady in the surf zone, where you need to be fast and solid. I think that's why the article is accompanied by photos of people exiting from a lake with no waves. Two weeks ago we saw an entire class, including the instructor, get knocked down by a 2'wave using this technique.
Good luck!
fishfood:Bottom line... Know your limits.. i allwys keep my bodyboard and fin in the back so if i cant dive i can ride
With enough lead, you could take that bodyboard with you all the time so you have something to make the exit more enjoyable
Allen
Yep, what he said. It is good advice and mirrors what I said.MyDiveLog:
But the most important point, and one illistated by divebuddysean (who by the way knows better becasue we have lots of shore dives together) going in with large surf is a sure way to get bad vis and a, "what the $#%! adn I doing out here!
Thanks all for all your input!! It has definately been helpful, and the dive that I had the issue with .. I definately learned some good lessons. I think with a single tank I may not have had the same issues, but possibly and whatever the case is with twins or a single tank - it's good to have a strategy on getting through and out of difficult surf.
I was spoiled with the small waves that I dove before at LJ.
.. and knowing one's limits and sticking to them is always good!
I was spoiled with the small waves that I dove before at LJ.
.. and knowing one's limits and sticking to them is always good!
I treat a sand entry very differently than a rock entry. I follow all of the advice you saw above for rock entries and agree with those people 100% for rock entries.
Then there are sand entries. I'm a bit different on this one, but used to practice this a lot in big surf during storms with my buddies at Redondo Beach. This works well in SoCal, with its relatively small surf zone. I don't know if it would work well in other geographic regions where the surf zone could be much larger.
I was pretty young when we were testing our methods and don't recommend that anyone go out to hone their skills in 10 to 15 foot breakers in the rain. I would NOT do it today, so just write it off to all of the stupid things that many of us miraculously lived though in our youth. Anyone who meets me today would have trouble believing that I would ever think of doing something so stupid. Today most people would consider me very cautious. Of course, vis was 0' during these "excercises", but then again diving wasn't the point.
I share the circumstances of these "practice sessions" only to explain that this process has been tested under extreme conditions. You should understand that there are lots of rocks that you don't normally see because they are covered with sand. Big waves move this sand and uncover the rocks and it hurts when you get slammed down on one. I'll also emphasize that if you make a mistake in extreme conditions, it could very well cost you your life, so don't "test" yourself in extreme conditions!
Now that the "don't try this at home" disclaimers are out of the way, on to the meat of the method.
Timing is everything! You must spend time looking at the patterns in the waves. You'll find the they gradually get bigger and then smaller. Count the number of waves and you will see that every so many waves there is a big one and every so many waves there is a small one. Also count slowly to see how long it takes for a wave to travel from it's formation to where is "crashes". You'll find that the bigger waves start further out so keep in mind that you want to clear the zone that includes the bigger waves. This pattern is absolutely predictable after watching for a while.
I put my fins on before going in the water and then walk in backwards into the water. You may have to "fall back" into a couple of waves as you walk out or they may knock you down. Remember not to walk in until the timing is right. As soon as I am deep enought to swim, I put my head down and kick as hard as I can and slowly count to 15. Then I pick my head up and find that the surf zone is behind me. If you hesitate, you'll probably get smashed by a wave.
On the way in to the beach it's the same thing. Don't try to "surf" a wave back in. Follow the wave in if you can. Because of the tank on your back the center of gravity is such that if you wind up at the top of the curl and get dropped down the face of the wave, you'll most likely fall on your head and might break your neck. Stay low.
If you start with very small waves, this will all become easy without a lot of pain or loss of equipment.
I don't know if this goes against the wisdom and procedures of today's teachings, but this is admittedly an old school approach. If someone thinks that anything I have said here is not safe according to todays methods, please correct me. I understand that many procedures have changed over the years.
Otherwise, I hope this helps.
Christian
Then there are sand entries. I'm a bit different on this one, but used to practice this a lot in big surf during storms with my buddies at Redondo Beach. This works well in SoCal, with its relatively small surf zone. I don't know if it would work well in other geographic regions where the surf zone could be much larger.
I was pretty young when we were testing our methods and don't recommend that anyone go out to hone their skills in 10 to 15 foot breakers in the rain. I would NOT do it today, so just write it off to all of the stupid things that many of us miraculously lived though in our youth. Anyone who meets me today would have trouble believing that I would ever think of doing something so stupid. Today most people would consider me very cautious. Of course, vis was 0' during these "excercises", but then again diving wasn't the point.
I share the circumstances of these "practice sessions" only to explain that this process has been tested under extreme conditions. You should understand that there are lots of rocks that you don't normally see because they are covered with sand. Big waves move this sand and uncover the rocks and it hurts when you get slammed down on one. I'll also emphasize that if you make a mistake in extreme conditions, it could very well cost you your life, so don't "test" yourself in extreme conditions!
Now that the "don't try this at home" disclaimers are out of the way, on to the meat of the method.
Timing is everything! You must spend time looking at the patterns in the waves. You'll find the they gradually get bigger and then smaller. Count the number of waves and you will see that every so many waves there is a big one and every so many waves there is a small one. Also count slowly to see how long it takes for a wave to travel from it's formation to where is "crashes". You'll find that the bigger waves start further out so keep in mind that you want to clear the zone that includes the bigger waves. This pattern is absolutely predictable after watching for a while.
I put my fins on before going in the water and then walk in backwards into the water. You may have to "fall back" into a couple of waves as you walk out or they may knock you down. Remember not to walk in until the timing is right. As soon as I am deep enought to swim, I put my head down and kick as hard as I can and slowly count to 15. Then I pick my head up and find that the surf zone is behind me. If you hesitate, you'll probably get smashed by a wave.
On the way in to the beach it's the same thing. Don't try to "surf" a wave back in. Follow the wave in if you can. Because of the tank on your back the center of gravity is such that if you wind up at the top of the curl and get dropped down the face of the wave, you'll most likely fall on your head and might break your neck. Stay low.
If you start with very small waves, this will all become easy without a lot of pain or loss of equipment.
I don't know if this goes against the wisdom and procedures of today's teachings, but this is admittedly an old school approach. If someone thinks that anything I have said here is not safe according to todays methods, please correct me. I understand that many procedures have changed over the years.
Otherwise, I hope this helps.
Christian
scubasean
Contributor
MyDiveLog:
Although I try not to dive in high surf, I don't quite understand why someone would want to deflate their B/C during entry...
In the example you used above, the guy should clearly not have been diving, in TWELVE foot waves....I contend that he still might have died with no air in his B/C....heh...70 lbs of gear, with weights holding him under water (possibly with no reg...) but I wasn't there, and have no idea what other circumstances might have been a factor.
On normal surf days, I'd rather be on top of the water, with my reg....If I read your suggestion correctly, you want someone to deflate their B/C AND have their reg out...I wonder if a person having a weight belt and getting tossed around without a reg has a lower survivability....
Or maybe I have taken your suiggestion wrong...Please clarify...I've only done five to ten medium surf entries, at Monestary beach in Monterey, but have always done it the way I describe (reg in, and B/C having air in it.).
hermosadive
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MyDiveLog:
MyDiveLog, I somewhat understand why you've come to the conclusion to never enter with the reg or snorkle in your mouth. Of course, "at least one diver embolized". That seems reason enough to give advise that goes against most of the instruction people have received in training. What about the diver who forgets to install the inflator hose to his BC and steps off the shelf or rocks into deeper water? Do you think most divers are neutrally buoyant with a deflated BC? If they're not, do you think they'll panic when they start sinking without an air supply? Nah, they will calmly release their weight belt or pull the intigrated weights from their vest and pop safely to the surface. Right. There must be "at least one diver" who's had this happen??
Sorry for the sarcasim, I really do understand why you've made your decision, I just don't think it's wise when its structured as instructional information vs. your opinion/experience.
I'm not looking for an advice war, I'm just tired and your wording rubbed me.
I agree with most of the deflated BC advise that is being shared. Entering the water with an inflated BC will turn you into a ballon and that is not a good mixure with waves and/or rocks. The deflated BC will make you more streamlined and make it easier to push out to deeper water and away from the shore hazzards. The only caution with this advise is that it assumes that the diver is neutrally buoyant. If I'm stepping off into deep water from shore I often add a little blast to my BC, not even quarter inflated. That's just my personal choice base on my gear and what I'm comfortable with. For beach entries with gradual bottom, my BC is usually completly deflated.
For me, reading, asking questions and trying things in conditions that don't exceed my present comfort level has best way to find out what works for me.
Roland
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