General Vortex Incident Discussion

[alohagal]

I have tried to watch the video a couple of times. I can't seem to make myself watch all of it. The sound you hear is the regs. The tunnell is tall there and the diver isn't close enough to hit the ceiling. There was questions abut them pulling on the line, well that line is actually a thick cable anchored in the ground. Without some heavy bolt cutters it isn't gonna break. I have even used it as a method to conserve gas. Hetland the info you post about his supposed 232 minute dive is interesting. A dive to 140 ft there is only about an hour dive, maybe an hour and half if you play around some. Not enough to poke in at that depth to justify that kind of run time. I kinda think that dive log entry is highly padded or bogus. There is no gear, trim or techniques in this video that show anything but reckless diving. As it was pointed out by Cave Diver, conservation is any true cave divers number one concern.

Thanks for clarifying about the "guideline" really being a cable and not easily broken.

 

[Cave Diver]

I was just catching up on the thread on TDS and ran across a question that is good, although a bit distasteful. If you are a bit squeamish I would advise you skip this question.


It was asked a couple of days ago, but no one has answered yet. Maybe someone here can offer insight. The question was about the eels in the cave and if they are scavengers or opportunistic feeders and how strong a sense of smell they have. I know salt water eels like morays and such have a strong sense of smell and will converge to an area that presents a feeding opportunity. Does anyone know if fresh water eels are the same, and if there has been any increase in activity by them in the spring?

 

[mike_s]

The Eels and fish like "squeeze cheese" and "hot dogs"...... IJS....


I finally had time to watch that video all the way. Damn...... :shocked2:

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

I was just catching up on the thread on TDS and ran across a question that is good, although a bit distasteful. If you are a bit squeamish I would advise you skip this question.


It was asked a couple of days ago, but no one has answered yet. Maybe someone here can offer insight. The question was about the eels in the cave and if they are scavengers or opportunistic feeders and how strong a sense of smell they have. I know salt water eels like morays and such have a strong sense of smell and will converge to an area that presents a feeding opportunity. Does anyone know if fresh water eels are the same, and if there has been any increase in activity by them in the spring?

Go to vortex, open a can of viennas and you will have your answer. I was there in January with GlenFWB testing out some gear. While gearing up I sliced my hand pretty good and at 40ft there was a green tril from the blood. I might have been there 15 minutes before the eels started hitting my hand.

 

[Hetland]

I was just catching up on the thread on TDS and ran across a question that is good, although a bit distasteful. If you are a bit squeamish I would advise you skip this question.


Does anyone know if fresh water eels are the same, and if there has been any increase in activity by them in the spring?

I've been in the cavern zone, with no eels present. Someone opened a can of Vienna sausages, and they came out of the woodwork. Not sure if they were responding to the sound or the smell though. They make short work of sausages.

My understanding is that American eels work their way from the mid Atlantic to the interior of the continent, mostly through subterranean passages in complete darkness. I'm betting their sense of smell is pretty damn good.

 

[diverdoug1]

Yeah, I'm not seeing the skills there to even be able to get that many bottles into a cave.

I think that if the victim had as many "lucky" dives (meaning he did not get killed) as his friends say, in this cave, he MAY have self taught himself the means to get the bottles in. Here is main point of the whole thing though. No matter how many lucky dives he had, and no matter how much he was "self taught", he was not diving in a proctored situation. He did not learn the conservative attitude and the slant towards cave conservation he would have learned in a proper cave course. This is the nexus of the problem that quite likely caused his death. He was easily enticed to "show off" for the camera. He felt he was showing off what a great diver he was, whereas, with proper training, he would know that he was making an "donkey (substitue other word for donkey)" of himself.

 

[Hetland]

Shot this a year ago:

[vimeo]4436476[/vimeo]​

Feeding Fish on Vimeo

 

[kathydee]

YouTube - Ben McDaniel @ Vortex Springs

Thank you all for your comments on these threads. You've helped me realize how fortunate I am to have an excellent instructor, who instilled great respect for the cave environment before ever entering the cavern zone.

The cost of future cave training no longer seems expensive.

 

[diverdoug1]

I was just catching up on the thread on TDS and ran across a question that is good, although a bit distasteful. If you are a bit squeamish I would advise you skip this question.


It was asked a couple of days ago, but no one has answered yet. Maybe someone here can offer insight. The question was about the eels in the cave and if they are scavengers or opportunistic feeders and how strong a sense of smell they have. I know salt water eels like morays and such have a strong sense of smell and will converge to an area that presents a feeding opportunity. Does anyone know if fresh water eels are the same, and if there has been any increase in activity by them in the spring?

WARNING: this reply could be upsetting to family or friends of the victim. Please stop reading this post, and consider leaving your loved one to rest in peace in an area he wanted to be in.



Fresh water eels don't tend to "burrow" into decaying flesh as much as salt water eels. A big factor in the necrophagic activity of fresh water eels would be what type of clothing / exposure protection the victim is wearing. If the victim was relatively unprotected, I would expect a decrease in "eel activity" in observable parts of the spring, because of an easy source of food in an area that is not visible. If a full suit was worn, I doubt that the population distribution of eels in the spring would be greatly affected. Also, the rate of decompostion of the body will be greatly affected by the clothing worn. A tight fitting wetsuit will enhance the formation of adipocere, and thus saponification of the body. In contrast, a drysuit will will result in skeltonization of the body in a shorter time frame (compared to a form-fitting wetsuit). It should be noted, at this point in time (9 days post mortem), secondary bloating of the body would make recovery impossible, even if he was discovered. Tertiary decomposition would have to occur to get the body through such a small gap. Once this occurs, the tissues would be so friable, the body would likely be retrieved in pieces.

 

[wess7777]

It was asked a couple of days ago, but no one has answered yet. Maybe someone here can offer insight. The question was about the eels in the cave and if they are scavengers or opportunistic feeders and how strong a sense of smell they have. ?

They eat dead organisms, insects, invertebrates, carrion, and even their own family if they are hungry enough.