If decomp is leaving "markers" in the water that is evident to the dogs, is this area a health hazard to swim/dive in right now?
General Vortex Incident Discussion
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Not a cave diver and never been to this location to dive...
If water flows through the system, why can't they drop in a submerisible camera and simply let it flow through the entire system and then retrieve it on exit and see what it recorded?
If water flows through the system, why can't they drop in a submerisible camera and simply let it flow through the entire system and then retrieve it on exit and see what it recorded?
Kevin Carlisle
Contributor
Kevin can you be more descriptive?
Couldn't a diver swim near the area of the obstruciton, release a camera, and let the water flow carry the camera the rest of the way where humans cannot squeeze past?
Couldn't a diver swim near the area of the obstruciton, release a camera, and let the water flow carry the camera the rest of the way where humans cannot squeeze past?
mike_s
Contributor
Your pretty damn close
Actually, I was thinking the same thing when I read her post. She'd fit.
(but not implying for her to go do anything unsafe....)
diverdoug1
Contributor
Although decaying tissue produces toxic compounds, the low concentrations that would be present in this situation should not present a health hazard for recreational water activities. If the spring water was originaly potable, then an E. coli assay should be done or the water should be boiled prior to drinking.
diverdoug1
Contributor
There are still so many inconsistancies with the information.
This from a friend of Ben's who had been in contact with people onsite:
Ben McDaniel presumed lost at sea. - Sunshine Underground
Ben had been diving this particular cave for about 2-3 months now. He was there almost everyday sometimes more than once in the same day. He was pretty familiar with it and level of danger it possessed and more than likely just got a little too confident in his skill set probably adding to his decision to dive alone. People knew of his plan to go down there, one of the other instructors was coming up as he was going in but because he was known to dive more than once in a day it's possible that person thought he might have been on a second or third dive after Wednesday evening and into Thursday morning. He was also just certified to be an OW scuba diving instructor.
Ben had recently bought an electronic device that tracked where he went, how deep he was, how long he was in a certain area, strokes and things like that. It did not have GPS. That was apparently going to be his next big diving purchase.
Where Ben is no other diver wants to risk going down there. He is very far back in an area that is uncharted and hasn't even been explored by another diver due to the amount of danger in that particular part of the cave. The person who is making the dive lives in the area but was out of town. He has flown back into town to make the dive and locate the body. He is the most experienced cave diver around, more so than Ben, so if he can't get to him then they will be calling off the search. Recovery will be his call and if it is too risky then it will not happen.
There is a mixture of info stated on this SB thread and info not stated on this SB thread. News reports and other posting boards have conflicting statements.
Maybe its that conflicting info getting back to family and friends that compels them to continue searching and to look for outside reasons behind the incident.
What is the real story?
Was the victim a DiveCon candidate or an OW Instructor?
Was he on friendly terms with the Dive shop and negotiating an OW Instructor position there? Were others aware of his activities over a 2 month period, or did he have an adversarial relationship and conduct dives on the sly?
How many trips back and forth from the parking lot would it take solo, to stage all the tanks and gear on the dock before hitting the water? Nobody saw this? Is this where he was confronted by one of the experienced certified cave divers?
The above post states the "most experienced cave diver around, more so than Ben..."
Electronic device? Black box? GPS?
So, it looks like one camp thinks that Ben was one of the top cave divers with the exception of a very few.
There seems to be an acceptance of Edd's final word, but now a plea for more divers. If the family thinks there is a "black box" type of homing beacon, that in itself might make them insist on continued recovery efforts.
Can someone list all actual facts in a simple outline?
Is there a purposeful with-holding of some information?
One of the things that I have learned on this thread and as I have searched other threads is how many people claim to have cave dived, or are "recreational" cave divers, or are planning a cave diving trip.... Diving overhead environments and diving beyond training has never occurred to me or my regular dive buddies, and I certainly hope with my students, but it is an actual serious problem. That fact has been enlightening and it has already changed my presentation to my students.
This from a friend of Ben's who had been in contact with people onsite:
Ben McDaniel presumed lost at sea. - Sunshine Underground
Ben had been diving this particular cave for about 2-3 months now. He was there almost everyday sometimes more than once in the same day. He was pretty familiar with it and level of danger it possessed and more than likely just got a little too confident in his skill set probably adding to his decision to dive alone. People knew of his plan to go down there, one of the other instructors was coming up as he was going in but because he was known to dive more than once in a day it's possible that person thought he might have been on a second or third dive after Wednesday evening and into Thursday morning. He was also just certified to be an OW scuba diving instructor.
Ben had recently bought an electronic device that tracked where he went, how deep he was, how long he was in a certain area, strokes and things like that. It did not have GPS. That was apparently going to be his next big diving purchase.
Where Ben is no other diver wants to risk going down there. He is very far back in an area that is uncharted and hasn't even been explored by another diver due to the amount of danger in that particular part of the cave. The person who is making the dive lives in the area but was out of town. He has flown back into town to make the dive and locate the body. He is the most experienced cave diver around, more so than Ben, so if he can't get to him then they will be calling off the search. Recovery will be his call and if it is too risky then it will not happen.
There is a mixture of info stated on this SB thread and info not stated on this SB thread. News reports and other posting boards have conflicting statements.
Maybe its that conflicting info getting back to family and friends that compels them to continue searching and to look for outside reasons behind the incident.
What is the real story?
Was the victim a DiveCon candidate or an OW Instructor?
Was he on friendly terms with the Dive shop and negotiating an OW Instructor position there? Were others aware of his activities over a 2 month period, or did he have an adversarial relationship and conduct dives on the sly?
How many trips back and forth from the parking lot would it take solo, to stage all the tanks and gear on the dock before hitting the water? Nobody saw this? Is this where he was confronted by one of the experienced certified cave divers?
The above post states the "most experienced cave diver around, more so than Ben..."
Electronic device? Black box? GPS?
So, it looks like one camp thinks that Ben was one of the top cave divers with the exception of a very few.
There seems to be an acceptance of Edd's final word, but now a plea for more divers. If the family thinks there is a "black box" type of homing beacon, that in itself might make them insist on continued recovery efforts.
Can someone list all actual facts in a simple outline?
Is there a purposeful with-holding of some information?
One of the things that I have learned on this thread and as I have searched other threads is how many people claim to have cave dived, or are "recreational" cave divers, or are planning a cave diving trip.... Diving overhead environments and diving beyond training has never occurred to me or my regular dive buddies, and I certainly hope with my students, but it is an actual serious problem. That fact has been enlightening and it has already changed my presentation to my students.
Scuba_Aaron
Contributor
Just thinking out loud here. If the flow is always coming out, would water samples taken at different parts of the cave and then analyzed to determine the largest concentration of cadaverine maybe indicate the most likely location of the body?
Again, just thinking out loud here, don't know if that would really work.
Again, just thinking out loud here, don't know if that would really work.
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