Fyi

[ScottyK]

So Jep- Finish your DM, and do your best to become part of the solution. I would have loved to have had one who was so into training safe divers.

All the DM assitisting my OW class did was shoot us with a Super Soaker and try to get us all to buy Zeagle Ranger BC's.

The one helping out during my AOW forgot her weight belt during our deep dive and almost gave herself an embolism trying to fight her way down the rope to catch up with us.

Even though it bothers you, hearing about deaths, and analyzing them, go with the territory.

Scott

 

[jepuskar]

Part of the solution....

Does anyone know what the solution is?

 

[learn-scuba]

You have to understand that no matter how hard you try, there are those who are going to insist on exercising their right to be stupid.

 

[divemed06]

jepuskar once bubbled...
Part of the solution....

Does anyone know what the solution is?

The way you find the solution is you either start at the top and work your way down, or start at the bottom and work your way up. Probably the simplest and most common sense way of making diving safer is to start with yourself...easy to say, especially if you've had good instructors! Hopefully, what happend to this lady will, at the least, not happen to the XX number of divers who have read this thread! Be safe out there and live to dive another day!

 

[ScottyK]

jepuskar once bubbled...
Part of the solution....

Does anyone know what the solution is?

Well....you can't change the world

All you can do is make an example for the people you come in contact with as a DM, and hope that it soaks through to some of them.

Maybe someday someone will come back and tell you that your going the extra mile in training them saved their life in a bad situation.

That would qualify you for "being part of the solution" in my book.

Point being...Don't use other peoples low standards as an excuse to lower your own.

Scott

 

[jhelmuth]

norcaldiver once bubbled...

I have really sensative eyes. I can't stand brite sunlight... I don't even like pool water in my eyes, so even if I get a little seawater in my eyes from say clearing a partially flooded mask, from then on my eyes water like crazy and I can't see anything anyway. Yes, in a pinch I am functional, but if I lost my mask completely, I'm pretty sure I'd be worthless as a rescuer.

Do you tell your buddy that (always)?

If you were to tell me that and asked if I'd dive with you, I'd have to tell you how I feel about that and I'd only go if the dive were easy enough that there was no chance that this would be an issue (like a 30' dive - or less at an easy dive site where I don't have to depend on you for much - like no chance of entanglements, etc.). I don't mind saying that these are issues that should be discussed and IMHO are reasons to not certify an individual. You have to execute these skills i(beyond functional at the DM level IMO) f required - thats why we are made to do them isn't it?
BY all means, someone please change my mind on this as I don't have the experience that most of you do (especially norcaldiver or Mike)

 

[dbulmer]

JHelmuth,

I think that's overly harsh. As a newbie I don't expect the DM to be a superman and I have found through my own limited experience that DMs make mistakes too - part of being a human being is learning through mistakes and that there are some skills you can do better than others.

There's a risk each time you go in the water and we all strive not to make the mistakes that could get us killed.

I wouldn't hesitate to dive with norcaldiver but he may not share the same feeling if he were diving with me. That said, the weakest link is the human factor plus a certain degree of good fortune.

What I guess the experienced can do in addition to their frequently practiced skills is to anticipate the times of highest risk and act accordingly. That said, even the best thought out plans cannot always be executed flawlessly in a changing environment -

I bet Lewis thought he'd beat Klitchko easily - I bet he never even considered defeat against Rahman.

The point is that a DM can do a lot to influence the outcome in his favour through preparation, briefing, teaching, local knowledge, experience etc l but there is always a risk of something not being in the script/plan that then requires a diver to think of and perhaps around his training.

In stressful situations, it is often the little things that get you out of mischief - if norcaldiver says he's functional then why worry?

The water won't care about his qualifications only his skill level.


Sorry if I sound naive but my own martial arts training teaches that the best fight is not be there in the first place and it seems to me that this is what most good divers are aiming for but that tish can happen.

 

[MikeFerrara]

ScottyK once bubbled...


Well....you can't change the world

All you can do is make an example for the people you come in contact with as a DM, and hope that it soaks through to some of them.

Maybe someday someone will come back and tell you that your going the extra mile in training them saved their life in a bad situation.

That would qualify you for "being part of the solution" in my book.

Point being...Don't use other peoples low standards as an excuse to lower your own.

Scott

Maybe you can't change the world but with a little practice you sure can shake up your little corner of it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

jhelmuth once bubbled...



Do you tell your buddy that (always)?

If you were to tell me that and asked if I'd dive with you, I'd have to tell you how I feel about that and I'd only go if the dive were easy enough that there was no chance that this would be an issue (like a 30' dive - or less at an easy dive site where I don't have to depend on you for much - like no chance of entanglements, etc.). I don't mind saying that these are issues that should be discussed and IMHO are reasons to not certify an individual. You have to execute these skills i(beyond functional at the DM level IMO) f required - thats why we are made to do them isn't it?
BY all means, someone please change my mind on this as I don't have the experience that most of you do (especially norcaldiver or Mike)

He didn't say that he'd freak, just that he couldn't see. Nobody can see well UW without a mask. However you should be able to breath and control depth. Put the mask back on and go on about your business. If there is more than one problem at once you prioritize and deal with them accordingle.

If the mask is gone and you don't have a spare, it might be a rough rescue.

 

[jhelmuth]

Please accept my apologies then for misinterpriting what he said. I read it as... "I can't see..." and "I'd be worthless as a rescuer".
I did not intend to sound harsh, but was really trying to understand why divers who have problems will dive anyway (or get certified for that matter). That was one example which was a part of the story (one of the buddy divers lost his mask and bolted to the surface to breath - why? because he couldn't breath without the mask, or open his eyes underwater because they were too sensative?)
I know of a few people who have a problem with breathing through their nose when the mask is removed, but they still get certified. I would hate to be in a situation where I am having to rescue, or be rescued by someone who has a problem with something like that. Mostly because I am not expierenced with people who have those issues (my buddies are limited and though we are all around the same skill level, we are also well rehearsed and know what we are and are not capable of). Not having enough experience and "listening" to many of the posts on this board with regard to the "life-and-death" association to a lack of some particular skills, combined with this story (not the only one which is similar to other posted/linked on this board) cause me to ask those of you who are experienced what is a real concern and what is not.
Is this type of thing worthy of concern, or do people here exagerate their concern? Do we tend to be more lenient in our opinions if a person is a DM, than if they do not have such a designation? Is that reasonable?
This is not a challenge. I am asking a hard question becasuse I do get confused at times from what seem to be confliciting views which are sometimes only conflicting because of who they reflect upon (obviously that is not the norm - but it happens).
PS - so that you and anyone else will know, I have only 50 dives to date and have 10 months of certification