Fyi

[divemed06]

It seems that everyone agrees that she or her buddies should have been able to cut her out. Just one thing, did they have cutting tools (knife, shears)? I know they should...but if my memory serves me correctly, knives arn't part of the initial equipement requirements for the OW class.....I think they should be..don't you?

 

[norcaldiver]

Diver0001 once bubbled...


why on God's green earth they were descending through a kelp canopy in the first place

HELLO! That's what I want to know. Kelp beds aren't that big in the area. You have a boat. Why wouldn't you put anchor a the edge, drop in and not even deal with the canopy?

Second comment is about a diver who needs to surface because his mask got dislodged. Hmmm. I think just saying it speaks volumes about the experience/skill level (cq quality of training) of the divers in question. I don't know who certified him but it seems to me that he shouldn't have been in the water at all if he had this problem.

Ok, this one I understand. I have really sensative eyes. I can't stand brite sunlight and if I flood my mask, I'm hating it. I don't even like pool water in my eyes, so even if I get a little seawater in my eyes from say clearing a partially flooded mask, from then on my eyes water like crazy and I can't see anything anyway. Yes, in a pinch I am functional, but if I lost my mask completely, I'm pretty sure I'd be worthless as a rescuer. It has nothing to do with my skill level or my instruction, it has everything to do with "I have this thing about my eyes"

 

[jepuskar]

What is wrong with the diver having to surface once he got his mask dislodge?

For one, he is no help if he cant see, so getting the mask back on is a priority.

Yes, he could of done this 5 feet under, but I'm sure the victim was thrashing about and seeing there was kelp everywhere and your only 5 feet from the surface....I would have surfaced and put my mask back on and then attempted to help then. It is not like it happened at 40 feet. I really dont think the attempted rescue was hampered by him surfacing from 5 feet....get real!

I don't think it says anything about the skill of the diver. None of you were there, you have no idea the skill set of the divers in question, nor do you know circumstances.

Monday morning armchair internet divers trying to analyze a tragic event when all you have is what was written in an article. Try talking to the other divers who were there! Tell them you think they are sub-standard divers who dont belong in the water because obviously you know everything about them anyway.

You know what...it sucks this person died, especially so close to the surface...seems really darn tragic. But, I wasn't there....so I don't know what really happened. Maybe if some of you where there this person would be alive, maybe not.

So lets analyze it some more.

 

[diverjed]

jepuskar once bubbled...
What is wrong with the diver having to surface once he got his mask dislodge?

For one, he is no help if he cant see, so getting the mask back on is a priority.

Yes, he could of done this 5 feet under, but I'm sure the victim was thrashing about and seeing there was kelp everywhere and your only 5 feet from the surface....I would have surfaced and put my mask back on and then attempted to help then. It is not like it happened at 40 feet. I really dont think the attempted rescue was hampered by him surfacing from 5 feet....get real!

I don't think it says anything about the skill of the diver. None of you were there, you have no idea the skill set of the divers in question, nor do you know circumstances.

Monday morning armchair internet divers trying to analyze a tragic event when all you have is what was written in an article. Try talking to the other divers who were there! Tell them you think they are sub-standard divers who dont belong in the water because obviously you know everything about them anyway.

You know what...it sucks this person died, especially so close to the surface...seems really darn tragic. But, I wasn't there....so I don't know what really happened. Maybe if some of you where there this person would be alive, maybe not.

So lets analyze it some more.

'It's True...'

Paul Harvey

 

[MikeFerrara]

jepuskar once bubbled...
What is wrong with the diver having to surface once he got his mask dislodge?

For one, he is no help if he cant see, so getting the mask back on is a priority.

Yes, he could of done this 5 feet under, but I'm sure the victim was thrashing about and seeing there was kelp everywhere and your only 5 feet from the surface....I would have surfaced and put my mask back on and then attempted to help then. It is not like it happened at 40 feet. I really dont think the attempted rescue was hampered by him surfacing from 5 feet....get real!

I don't think it says anything about the skill of the diver. None of you were there, you have no idea the skill set of the divers in question, nor do you know circumstances.

Monday morning armchair internet divers trying to analyze a tragic event when all you have is what was written in an article. Try talking to the other divers who were there! Tell them you think they are sub-standard divers who dont belong in the water because obviously you know everything about them anyway.

You know what...it sucks this person died, especially so close to the surface...seems really darn tragic. But, I wasn't there....so I don't know what really happened. Maybe if some of you where there this person would be alive, maybe not.

So lets analyze it some more.

Here's the thing. Even though we only have the article I really feel that the vast majority of accidents we hear about just shouldn't happen. It's certainly true of the accidents I've witnessed (most caused by a free flowing reg). Yes, a diver may go and do something dumb even after good training but they'll at least know the difference then. If we use the article (and I am) their whole plan was really wrong from the start so it doesn't surprise me at all that this would be the result. Trouble during ascents and descents is what I expect. If divers seperate at that time I wouldn't expect them to be of much help to each other. Doing it on purpose makes no sense at all to me.

I think the industry needs much much more analysis of such accidents rather than blaming them on bad luck or falling back on the statistical insignificance of the death/injury rate.

 

[jepuskar]

I'm starting to get really frustrated with all of this. I went thru the PADI OW course and I see the problem. However, I have taken it upson myself to up the level of my education...mostly thru reading etc...and just by knowing there is soo much more to learn.

So is it partly the divers responsibility or the agency's..or both?

When I was OW certified, it was very clear to me that some situations are best to be avoided until you have more experience. Kelp diving would have been one of those experiences.

I'm more than 1/2 way done with my DM program and I really dont want to continue it any more. The only reason I will is because it is paid for.

My mindset has been shot to heck because of all of this.

 

[MikeFerrara]

jepuskar once bubbled...
I'm starting to get really frustrated with all of this. I went thru the PADI OW course and I see the problem. However, I have taken it upson myself to up the level of my education...mostly thru reading etc...and just by knowing there is soo much more to learn.

So is it partly the divers responsibility or the agency's..or both?

When I was OW certified, it was very clear to me that some situations are best to be avoided until you have more experience. Kelp diving would have been one of those experiences.

I'm more than 1/2 way done with my DM program and I really dont want to continue it any more. The only reason I will is because it is paid for.

My mindset has been shot to heck because of all of this.

The way I see it it's the responsibility of both the diver and the agency. As it is now I think some simple but vital things are left out. You can teach yourself if you know what it is that you need to learn. You think you're frustrated? I found out after opening a dive shop that I just can't have much to do with the recreational diving industry. I don't believe divers are being given a good foundation of skills and knowledge on which to build. That puts new divers at a real disadvantage, IMO.

 

[jepuskar]

I'm frustrated because I followed very closely my gf's OW training because I was curious now that I have some more knowledge.

Looking back at my training, it was pretty much the same, but I didn't know any better. I have been pretty good about explaining to her what is REALLY going on without downplaying the training she is getting. It is an accomplishment to become OW certified, but I told her in a PC way that she needs to know more in order for me to be comfortable enough with her in the water.

Looking at the AOW program, I think it is a shame they make you go thru that in order to take your rescue class.

I am also losing respect for my LDS in the process...between some of the grief I am getting because of my online purchases and my decision to change my gear setup, with equipment they dont sell....

Makes me want to start a side business as an instructor with really small classes and adopt a training philosphy that really benefits the students and makes them prepared.



:doctor:

 

[MikeFerrara]

jepuskar once bubbled...
I'm frustrated because I followed very closely my gf's OW training because I was curious now that I have some more knowledge.

Looking back at my training, it was pretty much the same, but I didn't know any better. I have been pretty good about explaining to her what is REALLY going on without downplaying the training she is getting. It is an accomplishment to become OW certified, but I told her in a PC way that she needs to know more in order for me to be comfortable enough with her in the water.


....snip...


Makes me want to start a side business as an instructor with really small classes and adopt a training philosphy that really benefits the students and makes them prepared.



:doctor:

It's hard to tell when you're joking but that's how I feel and that's what I've done, in a sort of expensive round about way.

 

[jepuskar]

Mike,

I know what you mean, but I do take diving safety very very seriously! It is one of the few things in life I do take very serious.

If it could be worth my while, I would do that...and I would rent out my LDS pool for giggles.