Frog Kick VS Modified Flutter

[tursiops]

A quick search reveals...

The problem with a quick search is that you can find almost anything. You need to use curated sites if you are going to try and win a argument, especially about definitions. You've chosen a journalist's site and a blog on a random dive shop in Canada to "prove" the flutter kick and the scissors kick are the same. The problem is, the term have gotten muddied with fitness routines that use the two terms interchangeably.

Go find a site that is reputable, is about swimming, and about the teaching of swimming. For example:

Flutter Kick Vs. Scissor Kick in Swimming

Flutter Kick Vs. Scissor Kick in Swimming. Swimming is a low-impact aerobic activity that provides a total body cardiovascular workout. When you're swimming, you use every large muscle group at the same time. To swim efficiently or in competition, it's important to coordinate your stroke with...

woman.thenest.com

Step #6: Low-Profile Scissor Kick | GoSwim

Now that you’ve learned how to get balanced on your back and on your side using the flutter kick, it’s time to learn the scissor kick, which is the type of kick curr

www.goswim.tv

What Is the Scissor Kick in Swimming?

The scissor kick is a lower-body movement that helps propel swimmers through the water. It is easy for beginners to learn because it requires only a simple opening and closing of your straightened legs to provide forward momentum. Used in combination with synchronized arm movements, the scissor...

www.sportsrec.com

A Handy Visual Guide: Flutter Kick Vs. Scissor Kick

In order to swim in an efficient manner or while doing light exercises, it is required that you coordinate your stroke with a suitable kick. While some strokes make use of a flutter kick, only one employs the scissor kick. FitnessVigil discusses both these techniques in detail.

fitnessvigil.com

The two kicks are NOT the same.

 

[Ayisha]

The problem with a quick search is that you can find almost anything. You need to use curated sites if you are going to try and win a argument, especially about definitions. You've chosen a journalist's site and a blog on a random dive shop in Canada to "prove" the flutter kick and the scissors kick are the same. The problem is, the term have gotten muddied with fitness routines that use the two terms interchangeably.

Go find a site that is reputable, is about swimming, and about the teaching of swimming. For example:

Flutter Kick Vs. Scissor Kick in Swimming

Flutter Kick Vs. Scissor Kick in Swimming. Swimming is a low-impact aerobic activity that provides a total body cardiovascular workout. When you're swimming, you use every large muscle group at the same time. To swim efficiently or in competition, it's important to coordinate your stroke with...

woman.thenest.com

Step #6: Low-Profile Scissor Kick | GoSwim

Now that you’ve learned how to get balanced on your back and on your side using the flutter kick, it’s time to learn the scissor kick, which is the type of kick curr

www.goswim.tv

What Is the Scissor Kick in Swimming?

The scissor kick is a lower-body movement that helps propel swimmers through the water. It is easy for beginners to learn because it requires only a simple opening and closing of your straightened legs to provide forward momentum. Used in combination with synchronized arm movements, the scissor...

www.sportsrec.com

A Handy Visual Guide: Flutter Kick Vs. Scissor Kick

In order to swim in an efficient manner or while doing light exercises, it is required that you coordinate your stroke with a suitable kick. While some strokes make use of a flutter kick, only one employs the scissor kick. FitnessVigil discusses both these techniques in detail.

fitnessvigil.com

The two kicks are NOT the same.

I'm not the one trying to win an argument. There was no argument and my post had nothing to do with either of you.

In case you missed the point of that tiny portion of my post to the OP, it was that the DIR flutter is completely different from what might be more commonly known as a flutter kick.

 

[tursiops]

the DIR flutter is completely different from what might be more commonly known as a flutter kick.

And yeah, the DIR flutter is completely different from a typical flutter kick, which is also known as a scissor kick. There are great videos of various propulsion that have been posted in the past.

The "DIR flutter kick" is just a modified flutter, to keep the fins off the bottom. It is commonly taught in all cave classes without being given a special name.....just modified flutter. DIR doesn't own that kick.

 

[Ayisha]

The "DIR flutter kick" is just a modified flutter, to keep the fins off the bottom. It is commonly taught in all cave classes without being given a special name.....just modified flutter. DIR doesn't own that kick.

No, you're mistaken. In DIR diving, there is a flutter AND a modified flutter. There is a difference. Neither look like other flutter kicks.

The flutter kick is just called a flutter. I am describing it as a DIR flutter to distinguish it from other flutters for those who are clearly unfamiliar with it.

 

[drk5036]

No, you're mistaken. In DIR diving, there is a flutter AND a modified flutter. There is a difference. Neither look like other flutter kicks.

The flutter kick is just called a flutter. I am describing it as a DIR flutter to distinguish it from other flutters for those who are clearly unfamiliar with it.

I also agree with you. When I first learned to dive, I was taught to use the “flutter kick” which was defined to me as “keep your legs straight, moving only from the hips.” Specifically, any movement at the knees was explicitly forbidden and deemed bicycle kicking.

That certainly sounds different than the flutter kick people are using here, where the lower legs slide back snd forth (DIR flutter kick) or just the ankles move (modified flutter).

 

[stretchthepenn]

...a typical flutter kick, which is also known as a scissor kick.

Yeesh. No. Every time I see this, I cringe. I was a competitive swimmer and used to teach swim lessons for a living. Other than requiring the swimmer to point their toes, the two kicks are nothing alike.


A standard flutter kick can be done in any orientation in the water.

1. The motion starts from the hip, akin to an effective soccer-ball kick.
2. The legs are mostly straight, with slightly bent knees.
3. The feet move rapidly up and down, separating no further than about 30 cm.

A scissor kick can only be done done lying on one's side or while vertical in the water column.

1. The feet and knees draw up toward the body as a unit.
2. The top leg extends forward as if one is ascending a double- or triple-tall stairstep. Simultaneously, the bottom leg extends backward as if one is standing upright, reaching a leg backward, and touching that leg's toes to the floor.
3. Both legs simultaneously extend and sweep together, ending in a streamlined "glide" position.

Crossing these two kicks' definitions is an affront to all that is holy.

 

[Wibble]

[scissor kick] Known by whom?

All/most/many other people?

Alternatively "flutter kick" is the bent knee kick according to GUE who teach fundies. I'd never heard of "flutter kick" prior to then.


That flappy up & down, kick up the silt, keep those legs straight, use special (expensive) bendy fins or even split fins; don't do the bicycle kick thing.... just call it the scissor kick and be done with it.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

Without a back kick on one side or the other you aren't pivoting, you're swimming forward in a tight circle.

... and yet when I do a helicopter turn ... I am not using any frog kick, but I still manage to turn around in one spot, in either direction. And not swimming in a circle.

 

[happy-diver]

If I am using completely straight legs, with fins pointed, any orientation in the ocean
with my legs moving to full extent in opposite directions using all the muscle in my
thighs for propulsion, hips as a hinge, so much so that my body also corkscrews
due to torque, there is no way that has anything to do with any @#%$ flutter

 

[drk5036]

According to Wikipedia (WITH references!):

Flutter kick is the alternating up and down motion of the legs, either from the hips or as the more restricted movement of the modified flutter kick, and is the most frequently used finning technique. Flutter kick is easy to learn and is the technique most commonly taught to learner divers, but is often applied badly, where the fin is moved in a "pedalling motion", which reduces the effort required to move the feet, at the cost of making the effort largely ineffective for propulsion. Almost all types of fin are at least reasonably effective for flutter kick, with the exception of the monofin.
For maximum power from the flutter kick the full length of the leg from the hip is used, as kicking from the hips uses the largest muscle groups Having one stronger or leading leg tends to propel the diver in a curve, particularly if there is no visual feedback.

Flutter kick is effective for acceleration and sustained speed, particularly over moderate to long distances. It is a strong technique and can produce high thrust, so it is effective when swimming against a current. Sustained moderate to high speeds increase gas consumption due to high energy output.

Forward movement through the water has been used as a substitute for neutral buoyancy, particularly before buoyancy compensators became available, and still is used for this purpose. The flutter kick has a tendency to kick up silt from the bottom from downwash, but is good for avoiding contact with a nearby vertical surface, as when swimming along a wall.