Frog Kick VS Modified Flutter

[RobPNW]

I still do a frog kick that's more of a full leg kick. Like it starts at 90 degrees but my legs end up extended. I also still can't do the dang backing up kick. Hopefully it will come with time.

 

[drk5036]

I still do a frog kick that's more of a full leg kick. Like it starts at 90 degrees but my legs end up extended. I also still can't do the dang backing up kick. Hopefully it will come with time.

What kind of fins do you use? Makes a huge difference.

 

[dmaziuk]

I still do a frog kick that's more of a full leg kick. Like it starts at 90 degrees but my legs end up extended. I also still can't do the dang backing up kick. Hopefully it will come with time.

Get in a pool in swim fins, lay on your back w/ the kickboard under your head, and practice your modified frog. You can do back-kick that way too but you'll need to have the board under you butt rather than head, or at least I do.

The only problem with practicing reverse kick that way is: it works too well, quite unlike like doing it in longer fins and scuba gear.

 

[boulderjohn]

and I've no idea what a "modified flutter" could possibly be: bicycle kick?

A modified flutter is similar to the modified frog kick in that the knees are bent 90° and the kick is made primarily by the foot, with only the smallest amount of leg action. It's primary purpose is to navigate through spaces too tight for even the modified frog kick in an environment where you don't want to raise silt, such a between stalactites.

Every definition of a scissor kick I have ever seen has the legs spread apart, coming together, spreading apart, coming together, etc., with neither leg passing the midline.

 

[boulderjohn]

I also still can't do the dang backing up kick. Hopefully it will come with time.

What kind of fins do you use? Makes a huge difference.

There are two very different ways to accomplish the back kick.

The way I learned it first was indeed something of a reverse frog kick, as some posts have suggested. You have to twist the foot to get the blade in a propelling position and twist it back to flat during the recovery stroke. It took me a long time and a lot of practice to get that.

After I was feeling pretty good with that, I learned a complete different way. When I saw a video describing it, I thought there was no way It would work, but I happened to be watching it with a college professor who explained to me why it could work. I went out to try it, mastered it almost immediately, and now do it exclusively. It does require a fin with a fairly wide sidewall, such as you would find on a Jet fin, a Hollis bat fin, a Mares Quattro, and a host of others. In that technique, the blade surface is NOT the propelling surface--the sidewalls are used for that. That small surface area can be effective because the outward flick can be done very quickly. As the professor explained it to me, in the equation for the force created by the stroke, all factors are simply multipliers except for velocity, which is squared before multiplying. Thus, a very quick power stroke, even with a smaller surface area, followed by a very s l o w recovery stroke makes it effective.

 

[tursiops]

Every definition of a scissor kick I have ever seen has the legs spread apart, coming together, spreading apart, coming together, etc., with neither leg passing the midline.

 

[Jcp2]

Of course, it’s totally humbling to see the instructor doing back kicks and helicopter kicks with no fins at all. It’s the sides of the legs that give a lot of base propulsion. Fins add to it, of course.

 

[boulderjohn]

Of course, it’s totally humbling to see the instructor doing back kicks and helicopter kicks with no fins at all. It’s the sides of the legs that give a lot of base propulsion. Fins add to it, of course.

If you do the helicopter turn using the same concept as the second back kick method I described above, except moving each foot quickly in the same direction during the power stroke (one at a time) and then slowly back on the recovery, it is a piece of cake.

 

[RobPNW]

Just some cheap basic warm water fins. I'm looking at picking up the Apeks RK3s in the next few months. I'm waiting on that because I'm putting together my first BP/W kit. When I get that in, I'll put on my wetsuit and do some refresher training in it. After it feels normal, I'll get a good assessment of whether I'm feet heavy or light. Besides affecting how I use trim weight, it may go into the decision on whether to get the standard or HD RK3s. This would be a warm water setup. I may need a second pair for cold water down the road. That's the plan for now anyway.

 

[RobPNW]

A modified flutter is similar to the modified frog kick in that the knees are bent 90° and the kick is made primarily by the foot, with only the smallest amount of leg action. It's primary purpose is to navigate through spaces too tight for even the modified frog kick in an environment where you don't want to raise silt, such a between stalactites.

Every definition of a scissor kick I have ever seen has the legs spread apart, coming together, spreading apart, coming together, etc., with neither leg passing the midline.

I must be doing a scissor kick then. Works pretty good actually.