Friend or foe

[Steelyeyes]

I would say that life is too precious to waste it being mad but I might offend someone.

 

[lhalifax]

Dude, get over it. Now you're just complaining.

Not just complaining, but going on and on and on......he needs an editor.

Actually I also proposed a solution, in my last post. From "How could all this have been handled in a better way?" on.

I hope it will be read by someone. I don't expect an answer, just a bit of consideration.

On my part, it ends here.

 

[Addicted2H2O]

@lhalifax Again, I have no bias here and am just telling things the way I see them. First and foremost, IMHO it seems that the entire point of this thread was to publicly complain about a staff member's post and a moderator's response when you filed a complaint about it. I can certainly understand your frustration, especially seeing as how you are very close to the accident described in the other thread. If it hasn't been said already, allow me to give my sincere condolences to you as a friend of one of the victims. I'm very sorry for your loss. Believe me, we all are. It's never good when we as the dive community lose one of our own. So again, I'm sorry for your loss and I do hope something good arises out of the ashes of this situation.

I've read over the staff member's post over and over and over again and I can't find fault in anything he said. He wasn't making it a point by any means to point out that no one was "footing the bill" (as you so eloquently put it earlier). He was trying to convey the character of the recovery divers by showing that despite the monetary costs involved and with no expectation of compensation or reimbursement, these two gentlemen took it upon themselves to help with the recovery of the two victims because a) they had the means and gear to do so and b) they had the necessary skills, expertise, and experience and were more than willing to put themselves at risk rather thank risk any other lives trying to recover the divers. It wasn't haughty or matter-of-factish (if that can be considered a word) by any means. He was merely trying to show that some people are wiling to help regardless of what obstacles might be in their path. The priority for these two gentlemen was to recover the victims. Expectation of payment/reimbursement was never brought into it. I can almost certainly guarantee you that neither of the two rescuers looked at anyone, be they family, friends, government, etc. and said "Hey, we'll recover the victims for you for a price." But the way you have conveyed it, you're basically saying that the staff member disgraced the families involved by insinuating that they refused to help with the monetary costs involved and that simply isn't the truth. That point was never made anywhere in that post my friend. But you read it initially and got hung up on the fact that money was even brought up at all and very hastily chose that one point, regardless of what the entire post was about, and proceeded to tell the staff member he was wrong. What was he wrong about? What did he say in his post that was "false"? He said two recovery divers that he is acquainted with (in some manner) made efforts to help with the situation with no regards to costs and were able to recover both divers. I don't for the life of me understand how that can be taken in a negative manner and spun around to say "The families wouldn't pay". Why? Because it just doesn't. And that in itself is the entire reason for your complaint. You simply misread the post and took it out of context and allowed it to get to you because of your close proximity to the incident. It happens.

Look....anyone who's been here at SB for 5 minutes has undoubtedly seen a post from @boulderjohn and I'm fairly certain, even without knowing him personally, that any of us could attest to the fact that he's here to help through his knowledge and experiences. I am 100% positive when he made his post that he meant no disrespect and never intended for anyone to think anything negative of the victims or their friends and family. That's just not his M.O. I haven't been at SB very long but I can confirm that there are indeed some arrogant members here. He simply isn't one of them. And he wouldn't post something if he thought it could be conveyed as being offensive or disrespectful. Whatever transpired from that point on.....well.....I think we're all sorry it came to that. It was simply a misunderstanding. So that being the case....can we please let it go and chalk it up to a simple s**t happens?

 

[Fastmarc]

@Sh0rtBus from one unbiased, unconnected observer to another, well said.

 

[lhalifax]

@lhalifax Again, I have no bias here and am just telling things the way I see them. First and foremost, IMHO it seems that the entire point of this thread was to publicly complain about a staff member's post and a moderator's response when you filed a complaint about it.

Ouch. I thought it was over. No, it wasn't about this. Re-read my last post, I described how all this coul be avoided, IMO. I tried to explain why I felt attacked, and where I felt lack of communication. Byt hey, it's clear I failed at this. However, re-reading mu own post, it appears very clear (from "How could all this have been handled in a better way?" on.). Nevermind, it's over.

I can certainly understand your frustration, especially seeing as how you are very close to the accident described in the other thread. If it hasn't been said already, allow me to give my sincere condolences to you as a friend of one of the victims. I'm very sorry for your loss.

Many thanks. Sincerely. And no, nobody wrote these words before. I do appreciate you did.

I can almost certainly guarantee you that neither of the two rescuers looked at anyone, be they family, friends, government, etc. and said "Hey, we'll recover the victims for you for a price."

Never said that. It would be insulting on my part to the great people who came here to help, and succeded. They did an amazing job, and everyone is thankful for that. You see, in another board I read complaints because someone implied they did it to promote their gear. Forgive the word, ********. They are great people, doing a great job. That's it. I repeat again: great people, doing a great job.

But the way you have conveyed it, you're basically saying that the staff member disgraced the families involved by insinuating that they refused to help with the monetary costs involved and that simply isn't the truth. That point was never made anywhere in that post my friend. But you read it initially and got hung up on the fact that money was even brought up at all and very hastily chose that one point, regardless of what the entire post was about, and proceeded to tell the staff member he was wrong. What was he wrong about? What did he say in his post that was "false"? He said two recovery divers that he is acquainted with (in some manner) made efforts to help with the situation with no regards to costs and were able to recover both divers. I don't for the life of me understand how that can be taken in a negative manner and spun around to say "The families wouldn't pay". Why? Because it just doesn't. And that in itself is the entire reason for your complaint. You simply misread the post and took it out of context and allowed it to get to you because of your close proximity to the incident. It happens.

I see your point. Nonetheless, the wording was clear. If you have time, please really re-read my last post, in the part where I write how I think (IMO) that a different attitude would have avoided all this.

Please gimme the benefit of doubt, since you are "unbiased", take the time to re-read what I actually wrote. I bet we'll agree 100%.

Look....anyone who's been here at SB for 5 minutes has undoubtedly seen a post from @boulderjohn and I'm fairly certain, even without knowing him personally, that any of us could attest to the fact that he's here to help through his knowledge and experiences. I am 100% positive when he made his post that he meant no disrespect and never intended for anyone to think anything negative of the victims or their friends and family. That's just not his M.O. I haven't been at SB very long but I can confirm that there are indeed some arrogant members here. He simply isn't one of them. And he wouldn't post something if he thought it could be conveyed as being offensive or disrespectful. Whatever transpired from that point on.....well.....I think we're all sorry it came to that. It was simply a misunderstanding. So that being the case....can we please let it go and chalk it up to a simple s**t happens?

I already wrote so. Over on my part. I just hope someone will take the time to try and understand the other part, besides St. boulderjohn. And no, I don't think that writing about my personal niceness, friendliness and nastiness. But hey, I will never be friend to him but I bet both of us can live with that.

I wrote all that I had to say. If people wants to understand the cooperating part of this, fine. If not, fine.

Please don't take me wrong. I appreciated your post, and the one before. I believe you are a calm and nice person. Maybe it's just something that can't be understood until one gets caught personally in it.

Peace and Love.

.LH.

 

[Addicted2H2O]

I don't mean to keep this going and I do apologize for it continuing, but I feel I need to make a statement regarding both of my posts on this topic. I've been going back through the thread trying to understand both sides and I have to admit that I completely missed where the OP stated that the families DID help with the monetary costs of the recovery. I don't remember which post number it was but I'm happy to point to it if necessary. So while I don't consider my posts inherently wrong, I just wanted it to be known that I indeed missed where the OP said the families DID help with the monetary costs of the recovery. Either way, though, if a GoFundMe page has been set up for this tragic event, hopefully enough donations will come in to make it easier on all parties involved.

 

[The Chairman]

No one here is perfect. We all make mistakes. I'm sure that I make more than most. I feel no animosity towards the OP because we differ in our opinions. I saw three problematic posts and without any public commentary, I deleted them and gave the reason why to the affected participants. However, when a public complaint is made about what I did, I do feel it necessary to respond publicly. It's not that you can't criticize me, in fact I have asked the mods to never, ever edit any criticism of me. I can't grow without it. However, if you do criticize me I retain the right to give my version of events. Have I ever changed my mind? Quite often.

Was I in a hurry? Not really. I saw a brawl breaking out and wasted no time to remove the offending posts. That's it. No terse warnings were given. No one was banned from the thread. I just removed the rancor and the root of the rancor. Life moves on.