Frequency and cost of regulator service

[Nemrod]

Thanks to the Scuba Pro program tons and tons of parts were removed for no good reason and hoarder mentality service techs could not come to grips with throwing it all away and thus there is a huge supply of parts for all sorts of Scuba Pro regulators at many shops and often they give them to me. Thank you Scuba Pro and my 109 thanks you too. I can service my regs with like new, perfectly good used parts.

N

 

[spectrum]

The issue on service is how it is stored.

If you look what is "inside" the first and second stage, it's a lot of o-rings and springs. The o-rings deteriorate in heat (and ozone), so a lot of it has to do with how they are stored. My Atomic regs only require service every 2 years, or 300 dives, and has more to do with the valve seats that anything else (this is the big issue on air-flow). If you look at the diaphragm on your second stage, it's a piece of neoprene. When this fails, you've got a wet-breahter and/or a free flower. Both not good.

Some manufacturers offer lifetime parts warranty (Aqualung and Atomic, for sure), if you service per their recommendations. This drops the service charge down to around $50-60.

The issue on neoprene, is that when it loses it's elasticity, the tear tends to be all at once. Most regs fail at the diaphragm. They almost never fail at the 1st stage (unless they have gotten saltwater there, which should be visible during your pre-assembly of the scuba unit, prior to the dive).

The main thing you need to ask yourself: should you properly maintain your life-support equipment, or not?

How much heat and ozone do you subject you regulators to?

So if you buy a closeout that may have been in the sales pipeline should it get rebuilt before use?

Neoprene diaphragms? All that I am aware of are high tech sable materials and don;t even fall into thestahdard rebuild profile.

I'll agree that a failed diaphragm is probably a leading cause of the rare catastrophic failure but even by then the diver has probably ignored a lot of wet breathing.

In my eyes the biggest detriment happens between diving and storage when it is disconnected but near contaminants.

Pete

 

[beaverdivers]

Thanks to the Scuba Pro program tons and tons of parts were removed for no good reason and hoarder mentality service techs could not come to grips with throwing it all away and thus there is a huge supply of parts for all sorts of Scuba Pro regulators at many shops and often they give them to me. Thank you Scuba Pro and my 109 thanks you too. I can service my regs with like new, perfectly good used parts.

N

Now, you are scaring me!

Do you use used condoms?

 

[Nemrod]

Now, you are scaring me!

Do you use used condoms?

Uh, I have been married for, oh, 32 years and dated her for six before that. Before that, do not remember.

Just after a good go over, hey, used parts are already broke in, good to go.

Just got a NIB Conshelf XIV. Very pretty, never used. Lost behind a stack of boxes. Put it in the pool for a test dive, breaths like a dream. On the Magnahelic it breaks at 1.2 inches. Replaced LP seat with a home made one and now it breaks right at .9 inches. Very nice.

My original 1966 Calypso J, bought by me with yard mowing money in Summer 66, that is close to 46 years. It has NEVER been rebuilt. It works just fine. I did replace the LP seat after 40 years but I think I got my moneys worth. Here it is riding shotgun a few weeks ago with my Phoenix RAM HPR Aqua Master:

The Tekna T2100 second stage was originally said not to need service. Did not turn out that way but I still have two that have NEVER been serviced and they work and breath beautifully, that is 32 years for them also. Unfortunately the tilt servo valve seat material tends to degrade and they are hard to resurface. But if one cannot buy it then just make it.

N

 

[elan]

Nemrod you did not answer the question

Nice reg! BTW. I was recently able to source a NOS MK5 (although the later generation) and my friend was all drooling over it especially when I put a NOS DIN kit.
I kind of get the same feeling looking at yours.

BTW we should stop praising MK5s 109, 156, D series and Pilots. The prices go up unrealisticly high.

 

[beaverdivers]

Yes Nemrod, your Scubapro reg. is a beauty.

Seriously, I am sure you know that dynamic o-rings are replaced when a reg. is serviced. Also, seats and worn parts are replaced.

The static o-rings could be re-used after passing inspection. However, it actually saves time and the client money by replacing them. Moreover, it is their best interest to just replace all o-rings with new ones.

I just had a student that I trained 16 years ago come back in for a refresher. He brought in his dad's MK 5/ Bal Adj, just like the one in your pic.
He also had his 1997 B.C. w/ AIR II
They were very dirty due to the fact it had been in a house that had a major remodel.

I said that I could probably bring his gear back to life. It hadn't been used for 16 years. Also we live in a very dry climate, so things tend to dry out and crack.

I had done a service on the Mk5/Bal Adj 16 years ago, so it had been updated to 1997.

Fortunately, I was able to service the MK 5 rather easily.

However, the balanced adjustabe 2nd stage needs a new lever due to the new poppet. Also, the diaphram had losted its proper shape.

I explained to my long time student what the total cost would be to bring it up-to-date. He asked me if I thought it was worth it or should he get a new one.
In this case I felt that it was in his best interest to put in the new parts and bring it back to life.

Due to the design strategy of Scubapro, we can take a 30 year old reg. and replace the old parts with the current up-to-date parts.

I truely think this is amazing in today's world of planned obsolescence!

 

[halocline]

The issue on service is how it is stored.

If you look at the diaphragm on your second stage, it's a piece of neoprene.

Most regs fail at the diaphragm. They almost never fail at the 1st stage (unless they have gotten saltwater there, which should be visible during your pre-assembly of the scuba unit, prior to the dive).

I pulled a few things out of your post. Storage is important, particularly making sure the reg is thoroughly cleaned of any salt deposits and then stored with as little pressure as possible on the 2nd stage seat.

2nd stage diaphragms have not been made out of neoprene for decades. Did you recently wake up from a 20 year+ nap? They're made out of silicone. I've bought plenty of 20 year old+ 2nd stages with the original diaphragm that is still in excellent shape.

1st stage failure is IME about as common as 2nd stage failure. Typically this is IP creep or a HP o-ring leaking, with the 2nd stage it's a slow free flow due to wear at the seat. While the 1st stage is much sturdier than the 2nd stage (109 excepted....those are practically indestructible) the 1st stage also has to deal with large pressure gradients which the 2nd stage does not.

I didn't pull your 'life support' bit out, but hopefully you and other divers will eventually get over the myth that our lives depend on our regulators in recreational diving. You have a buddy, don't you? You can swim to the surface, right? So what's the 'life support' nonsense?

The argument about appropriate service interval for regulators is very common on this board. If the regulator is stored correctly, I believe that service life is based on dive numbers, not time. (within reason) I've encountered plenty of regulators that have been inactive for many years, but work perfectly because they were stored clean and dry. Others might need a 2nd stage seat or adjustment, but otherwise work great.

As a little experiment, I decided to rebuild one of my MK5s, pack the ambient chamber with tribolube, and see how long it will go for. I'm not counting dives, so my experiment is hardly anything scientific. But, I just checked the IP and it's still rock solid after 3 1/2 years, probably 150-200 dives. (I don't use it all the time) Point is, if they're rebuilt correctly, cared for correctly, and well designed/built regs to begin with, they can go a loooonnnnnngggg time between rebuilds.

On the other side, even very simple reliable regulators can, and in fact will eventually, fail in use. They're only mechanical devices. So anyone who dives in a manner that would result in death in the event of regulator failure ought to immediately go back to training and develop some safe diving skills. "Life support"....my ass.

---------- Post added December 8th, 2012 at 10:59 AM ----------

I said that I could probably bring his gear back to life. It hadn't been used for 16 years. Also we live in a very dry climate, so things tend to dry out and crack.

I had done a service on the Mk5/Bal Adj 16 years ago, so it had been updated to 1997.

Fortunately, I was able to service the MK 5 rather easily.

However, the balanced adjustabe 2nd stage needs a new lever due to the new poppet. Also, the diaphram had losted its proper shape.

I explained to my long time student what the total cost would be to bring it up-to-date. He asked me if I thought it was worth it or should he get a new one.
In this case I felt that it was in his best interest to put in the new parts and bring it back to life.

Beaverdiver, you're not actually working on someone's regulator yourself, are you? Now you're scaring me!

Any so-called 'tech' that tosses a balanced adjustable simply because it needs a new lever and a diaphragm probably either has no idea what he's doing or is just trying to sell someone a new plastic reg.

So tell your student that if he wants to sell his obsolete, too-old-to-fix regulator that there are likely to be many people on this board happy to buy it.

 

[Nemrod]

Yeah, on second thought, those dang SP 109s are way overrated, in fact, an AL Titan XL will kick it's rear and take names doing it (and it sorta will). Yeah, stay away from Ebay too, nothing on there but junk .

It is always good to find a tech with a reputation for good work and have your equipment serviced on a reasonable schedule. Send all used parts to me please.

N

 

[beaverdivers]

Beaverdiver, you're not actually working on someone's regulator yourself, are you? .

Yes, I am still servicing gear and have been actively servicing gear since the 70's.

I have attended more Scubapro service seminars than I can count. I just attended another Expert clinic in June.

I will be working on gear Sat. & Sun.

Yes, I believe reg. service is the most important part of our business.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Yes, I believe reg. service is the most [-]important[/-] profitable part of our business.

Here, I fixed it for you. Nothing wrong with making a profit but lets be honest there is a monetary incentive involved as an LDS.