Forum descriptions - Basic vs. Advanced

[DevonDiver]

Well, I guess if you are an OW diver, then nitrox seems very advanced.

If you are Trimix CCR diver, then nitrox seems pretty basic.

As you say... perceptions differ.

However, this board caters for the full spectrum of divers. So, it makes some sense that the widest perspective is used.

Some people seem to think that Basic equals OW. Advanced equals AOW+

If that were true, then why do we have a 'New Divers' forum???

That means we'd have TWO forums for OW... and ONE forum for every other discussion.

Of course, we do have 'special rules' that specifically state the function of these forums. Special Rules that we are obliged to read and adhere to...

I understand the confusion on the issue. This whole thread emerged from a simple comment I made in a thread, where several posters were all confused about the forum aims. It's something that hopefully will be addressed in due course.

 

[jar546]

Thanks

 

[DevonDiver]

The other issue is that having the right threads, in the right forums, debated by like-minded people with a simular mindset and appreciation would lead to less conflict.

The Advanced Forum allows a 'more robust' form of debate, including direct criticism, because it was aimed at highly experienced divers...operating at a technical level (not necessarily tech diving though).

I don't want to sound patronizing, but the average recreational diver probably doesn't understand the reason why that 'robust' debate is necessary at a truly advanced level. They often see it as rudeness or hostility.

For example, put a 'split fins' debate into the basic area, and it is normally civil. Everyone understands the level of the debate...and criticism is sparse. Who cares if a recreational diver wears split fins?

Put the same topic into an advanced/tech area, and there'll be blood. With good reason.

Now imagine the 20 dive AOW 'advanced diver' who stumbles mistakenly into the Advanced Diver area to ask about his split fins... and the reaction he gets. Say goodbye to that diver, who now thinks Scubaboard is a rude and hostile place. Say hello to the moderators who have to wade into the fray with riot shields held high and their fingers on the delete post button...

Have you ever noticed how many times an OP will disappear from a 'hostile' thread in the Advanced Forum after 1-2 pages??

 

[Walter]

Why would they want to avoid putting a basic scuba topic into the basic scuba forum?

Because it is no longer for basic SCUBA discussions. We are told over and over that the forum is for new divers and they have to be treated gently least we bruise their delicate feelings.

Putting this debate into the Advanced Scuba area, opens it up to critique with a tech-orientated mindset. Obviously the recreational MSD shouldn't be judged by that yardstick...

First, this isn't the tchnical diving forum, there is one specifically for technical diving with several little subforums. Second, your obvious conclusion isn't so obvious to me. MSD should be judged based on the education it provides. Some master diver classes do provide an excellent education. Others aren't even classes, they provide no education at all.

The other issue is that having the right threads, in the right forums, debated by like-minded people with a simular mindset and appreciation would lead to less conflict.

Like-minded people don't debate, they agree with each other.

 

[novicediver]

Scuba board is a hostile place but so be it. Just be prepared no matter what question you ask or comment you make that you will get your head bitten off. It's the nature of online forums.

 

[Cap335]

I don't want to sound patronizing, but the average recreational diver probably doesn't understand the reason why that 'robust' debate is necessary at a truly advanced level. They often see it as rudeness or hostility.

Maybe thats because it gets rude and hostile. I'm not saying that people have to agree but alot of posters forget that there isn't one set right way to dive.

Randy

This post is to get rid of the you need to post banner.

 

[Downing]

You can make all the rules you want, but I'm thinking these basic vs advanced vs technical distinctions are to a greater degree subjective rather than objective and will continue to confuse.

Move the threads when you think it's appropriate but be courteous about it. We'll live.

 

[DevonDiver]

Because it is no longer for basic SCUBA discussions. We are told over and over that the forum is for new divers and they have to be treated gently least we bruise their delicate feelings.

We have the 'New Divers' forum for that.

The Basic Scuba forum was included in the 'Green Zone' because there was no need for "brutal criticism" within mainstream/recreational diving topics.

The words used are "politely and friendly". Why would being polite and friendly cause such a cramp in your debating style?

First, this isn't the tchnical diving forum, there is one specifically for technical diving with several little subforums.

Do I need to post the Special Rules again? It's quite clear what the forum IS.

Second, your obvious conclusion isn't so obvious to me. MSD should be judged based on the education it provides. Some master diver classes do provide an excellent education. Others aren't even classes, they provide no education at all.

The debate you are referring to was referenced to the PADI MSD certification.

Like-minded people don't debate, they agree with each other.

Incorrect. I am talking about the ability to debate on a simular 'wavelength'.

 

[aquaregia]

The problems with the term "advanced" are well known to the board. Pick a word like "experienced" and you'll still have 1-year-but-100-dives and 10-years-but-20-dives problems. Perhaps we should make the forum "less friendly recreational diving"?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

What some may see as "brutal criticism" may be seen by others as honest observations and cutting through the BS. When a poster continues to make statements that are from an obvious lack of understanding of an issue it may be necessary to say "hey, that is simply not right". This can happen as a result.

There is a thread going on now where a new diver with less than 25 dives was told there is no difference between a dive on the Benwood and one on the Grove or the Duane. That is just plain BS and there is no other way to say it. I did say why it was BS but to say " well that might be true but if this or that happened you might get into a bit of trouble and have some discomfort or issues with this or that" or just say "hey, wanna get hurt or killed?" "No" "then don;t do those dives until you get more experience and training."

Basic discussions should be the place where we don't have to pussyfoot around and play nicey nice. Yes it can be civil but I can be both civil and blunt and to the point. I don;t mince words with my students and see no reason to do that here either. I'm not cussing or yelling. Just being clear and leaving no doubt about what I want to say.

And what wave length are you talking about? Similar to who? Mr Rogers or George S Patton? :=)