Forum descriptions - Basic vs. Advanced

[DevonDiver]

The industry also call it Open Water and Advanced Open Water. The industry is responsible for the confusion over what "advanced" means.

PADI call the 2nd level course AOW
SSI call their second level course Advanced Adventurer
The SSA AOW course is more akin to the PADI MSD course
BSAC have an Advanced Divercourse, which is their second highest level and includes non-accelerated deco, and expeditionary diving, amongst other things.

Advanced Diver and Advanced Open Water are very different terms...

Open Water is as basic as it gets. An 'advancement' of that is hardly 'advanced diving' by anyone's definition.

In reading the "special rules" for the Advanced Scuba Discussions forum, reference was made to "migrating from the traditional recreational diving envelope into more advanced areas...." Thus, I thought avoiding the word Basic might help eliminate some confusion.

The sticky in the Advanced Diving area makes it very clear what the definition used is. Nobody reads the sticky.

Personally, I think the word Recreational should have been used instead of Basic. But, as Pete points out, there are some major difficulties involved with changing that.

Bear in mind that the structure of the board was put together nearly a decade ago... and the diving industry has evolved a lot since then.

Back then, if you were doing 'advanced diving', then you knew where the line was drawn. Nowadays we have recreational solo courses, recreational trimix etc. Nitrox has become a commonplace course, available by online learning. More divers are in involved with cavern and cave diving. More recreational divers use doubles or ponies. etc etc

The whole issue has become very 'grey'.

When the 'Advanced Diving' area was put together, it was with the purpose of allowing robust debate by very experienced divers. That is clearly explained within the 'sticky'. The nature of the topics anticipated meant that some flexibility was needed. You don't want 'sugar-coating' in a high-level scuba discussion.

However, when basic level divers post basic level discussions in that area, the robust debating style is highly likely to cause offense, insult and aggravation.

It's a clash of mindsets... that often causes nasty arguments.

 

[DevonDiver]

It appears that you missed my point. The name is easy enough to change, but is that what is needed? Does it outweigh the negatives that I outlined above?

Having basic and advanced is fine. We just need to clearly identify what definitions of those forums are.

If we created a 'Going Tech' forum to essentially take-over the current purpose of the Advanced Diving forum, then it would leave the Advanced Diving forum free for another purpose..

Of course, if the Advanced Diving was no longer focused on demi-tech diving, then it wouldn't need the special forum rules that allow "brutal criticism". It'd go back to regular forum rules.

So..we can divide recreational scuba into 2 levels - basic and advanced.

Basic Scuba could describe the 'core' scuba path of OW, AOW, Nitrox and Rescue (and MSD!). It is the place for questions about weighting, buoyancy, basic kit choices, techniques, skills and knowledge, emergency drills (inc spare air debates!) at an equal level to that contained in core recreational scuba courses..

Essentially, if it's in a PADI course...it's BASIC.

Advanced Diving could describe specialist activities that demanded a higher degree of skill and experience; i.e. overhead environments, recreational trimix, unsupported/expeditional diving, line drills/procedures, and other topics in the recreational diving realm that exceed the curriculum of core agency courses.

Essentially, if it's beyond the scope of a PADI course, but doesn't reach the scope of a Tech course... it's ADVANCED.

It doesn't need the 'brutal criticism' that is more appropriate to tech diving, but shouldn't be "sugar coated" either.

Going Tech could be a pre-tech Q&A forum (name suggested, because we already have a 'Going Pro' forum... which will ease understanding of function). The place for Intro to tech, doubles configurations, precision buoyancy and trim etc etc. The place for recreational divers to first start asking questions and getting advice from existing tech divers. It should allow a 'robust' level of discussion, as is appropriate to the mindset of tech diving.

(The benefit of this will be the end of "I have just finished OW and want to be a tech diver" level questions in the tech debate forum).

Thoughts?

I think that some divers have an 'ego issue' about posting into the Basic Scuba forum. But really... if we think about what all divers should know... that's helps with our definition of basic.

 

[Walter]

Basic Scuba could describe the 'core' scuba path of OW, AOW, Nitrox and Rescue (and MSD!). It is the place for questions about weighting, buoyancy, basic kit choices, techniques, skills and knowledge, emergency drills (inc spare air debates!) at an equal level to that contained in core recreational scuba courses..

Essentially, if it's in a PADI course...it's BASIC.

Advanced Diving could describe specialist activities that demanded a higher degree of skill and experience; i.e. overhead environments, recreational trimix, unsupported/expeditional diving, line drills/procedures, and other topics in the recreational diving realm that exceed the curriculum of core agency courses.

Essentially, if it's beyond the scope of a PADI course, but doesn't reach the scope of a Tech course... it's ADVANCED.

I'm not sure lots of people agree with you on what should go in which forum. Case in point:

"Basic" and "Advanced" reflect the industry norm as to content. Obviously, there will always be some overlap between the two, and that's OK. We try to leave it up to the OP to determine where it should go.

 

[DaleC]

Pete, please read my posts in this thread: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/feedback/369724-not-technically-oriented-enough-advanced-scuba.html#post5728703

I have become recently "interested" in this subject and would like my POV regarding the forum in question considered.

 

[The Chairman]

I have been interested in this subject for about ten years now.

:sinq:​

 

[SC_Hoaty]

I have been interested in this subject for about ten years now.

:sinq:​

I have been interested in this subject for about ten years now.

:sinq:​

Once is enough

 

[BDSC]

You know Pete, if it's been the way it is for quite some time and there have been no major issues other than a thread like this from time to time I'd leave it alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[The Chairman]

You know Pete, if it's been the way it is for quite some time and there have been no major issues other than a thread like this from time to time I'd leave it alone. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It depends on how you define "major". Personally, I get embarrassed when I see the fear some express to me when they tell me why they won't post here. The site is meant to be inclusive and not exclusive. POV warriors want to be sure that we know that we are going to die because we weren't trained by (like) them and so we don't dive like them.

If/when you watch Sanctum, see how many ScubaBoard personalities your can pick out among the characters. I can't remember what was said, but I turned and whispered to Elena, "I think he posts on ScubaBoard!"

 

[BDSC]

If/when you watch Sanctum, see how many ScubaBoard personalities your can pick out among the characters. I can't remember what was said, but I turned and whispered to Elena, "I think he posts on ScubaBoard!"

That's hilarious!

 

[Kingpatzer]

The mods are thinking that an additional forum is needed. . . .

Oh for the love of god NO! NO! A thousand times NO!

It's already a major pain in the butt to flip through so many forums. If the break out is problematic the solution is to collapse the forum. Get rid of "Advanced" and turn "Basic" into "General Recreational Diving" with a description that runs from post-OW Certification to entry level technical diving" and keep "Newbies" as the green zone.