Force Fin Sticker shock

[sibermike7]

it will take me a few weeks to make high performance Jet Fins. Right now I think they must cost about $ 7.00 to make out of rubber. Our cost might be around $80.00 per pair but I know from years of working with hand-cast Poly-urethanes you will feel the difference. To keep the cost down they will only come from me direct. Let's see what the UDT does for Tom. Thanks for your interest. I still stand for the Force Fin concepts, but we have diver's who will go to their graves loving Jet fins so why not give this classic fin design a up-lift from rubber. Best bob

Bob, what is the matter with you?!! :shocked2:
You can't be saying this! What will happen to all the naysayers that constantly criticize you for being so narrow-minded "ForceFins for everyone!!"?!

Actually, I am being facetious, of course.
I for one have never recommended FFins for everyone. Some people just don't like them or don't want to learn to use them. However, far too many techies do use them and they do move a lot of gear around under water so I don't think that there really is a valid issue of the fins being too wimpy to produce enough force.

I think it is a great idea to produce bullet-proof PU jet fins (I won't buy them though, I'll stick with the Pros) and should show Bob's desire to meet the genuine wants and needs of the diving community. Kudos Bob!

Oh, and by the way, hopefully you won't be taxed out of business if a certain tax-loving individual gets elected!
Mike (the capitalist)

 

[sibermike7]

I am not happy with the heel strap and was thinking about putting on a bungee strap system. Someone mentioned the xs scuba spring strap but I have never been sold on the spring concept. The bungee is so light and does not set up problems for military divers with mines.

I LOVE the bungee with my FF Pros. Of course, I actually believe that in the water, I really don't need ANY strap. The only "problem" I have ever had with FFs is getting the rascals off! (I am not complaining about the "stickiness," I think I would be really bummed if my fin fell off right in the middle of the dive!)

However, would a Jet fin have the same qualities in that respect (staying glued to your feet)? I don't know. If it did, then I think that the bungee would work great.

 

[vicdiver656]

Vicdiver656, amazing thoughts, I am glad that I am still around keeping many American workers at work today. If you really understood what we are doing each day at Force Fin you might take another tone. Glad you like to dive. Best bob

No offense Bob....but do you mind enlightening us on what exactly you are doing each day at Force Fin?

 

[meesier42]

I LOVE the bungee with my FF Pros. Of course, I actually believe that in the water, I really don't need ANY strap. The only "problem" I have ever had with FFs is getting the rascals off! (I am not complaining about the "stickiness," I think I would be really bummed if my fin fell off right in the middle of the dive!)

However, would a Jet fin have the same qualities in that respect (staying glued to your feet)? I don't know. If it did, then I think that the bungee would work great.

you know, as soon as I read that Bob was planning on doing a Jet, I immediately called him and ask about that, as it applies to the UDT Duck Foot that he is working on as well.

it appears that its not about the classic FF characteristics, its about market pressure, the market wants Jets, so the market gets Jets. It doesn't matter if there are better designs available, the market doesn't care about efficiency, comfort, or manueverability, they want their Jets. I just have a hard time believing that the market will bear a $200+ Jet knock-off, even in urethane, unless there is some other improvement that adds value (SD-1 footpocket maybe?)

 

[evil_xander]

... It doesn't matter if there are better designs available, the market doesn't care about efficiency, comfort, or manueverability, they want their Jets. ...

Dare I say that the market has told how it feels about better design, efficiency, comfort or anything else by demanding a clone of something that's what, 50 yrs old design?

It's not like the FF have been around since yesterday, and I guess will, just like Jets always have their niche market catering the divers who know what they want and for what reason.

For everybody else, there's always Mares Avanti Quatro or Aqualung slingshots.

 

[Bob Evans]

VicDiver656, I will bring in my camera this week to capture the nature of what goes on here at Force Fin. I find people who visit the shop get the idea of how much hands on work takes place. I and my assistant take care of over 300 plus production mold making a new mold each month. I am finishing the UDT fin project and will be offering this classic design.
Vickie and paul are now shipping several overseas orders, and they need my help rolling them out the door. Photo's coming. Best bob

 

[meesier42]

ah yes, the market, it has been stated more than once, but to quote the only scientific study around

"Fin selection is most often made on the basis of the diver's perception of the effectiveness. In our studies, the divers invariably ranked the stiff fins as the best and the flexible fins as the worse, which did not correlate with the objective evaluation of these fins" UofBuffalo, Evaluation of fins used in underwater swimming

so to accept market pressures as a reason that a fin continues to exist, is meaningless to me.

that being said, I do belive there is a market for the Jet fin, and there must be perfectly good uses for it. So, if people as willing to pay for them and Bob can make a couple of bucks doing so, great, let see what Bob's mad scientist mind can do to improve an age old design.

 

[deco_martini]

There have been several attempts to make "better Jets". I was not a 24 year old Jet fin loyalist before I got my Jet style fins. I got the OMS Slipstreams with a pair of XS spring straps.

The fin is way too stiff in the foot pocket. Tech divers like the stiffness of the blade of this fin. Its easy to frog kick in them. Since the fin is made from a single stiff piece of some sort of material other than rubber, the foot pocket is just as stiff which means you need to find booties that fit them to your foot "just right".

The straps. The XS straps make getting them on and off easy, but all springs straps I have seen and tried always seemed funky. Coil expansion is something I shouldn't have to worry about. Maybe a bungee type strap would be better. Spring straps are great but they always seem like something jury-rigged onto a fin (except for the Atomic aquatics straps, but Atomic straps are for atomic fins).

The OMS Jet is so Slipstreamed, that it can afford raised letters on the fin for branding. I've considered using a Dremel and finishing paper to remove these to slipstream my Slipstreams.

Maybe the Jet design doesn't carry over as well to materials other than rubber? I am sure you guys can do no worse than OMS with their fins, trying to find sizing for them is a black art of googling and forum searching. You have to find someone else who has the same size feet as you, and has posted what sort of boots they use somewhere on the internet. Not the best method for determining sizing.

Looking forward to some FF-Jet pics.

 

[sibermike7]

VicDiver656, I will bring in my camera this week to capture the nature of what goes on here at Force Fin. I find people who visit the shop get the idea of how much hands on work takes place. I and my assistant take care of over 300 plus production mold making a new mold each month. I am finishing the UDT fin project and will be offering this classic design.
Vickie and paul are now shipping several overseas orders, and they need my help rolling them out the door. Photo's coming. Best bob

All right Bob. It's Monday (next week). Where's the pictures??

If you ever get a chance I would like to see a frog kick with the FF Pros.

 

[Bob Evans]

Sibermike, I will get Blair right on it. Working on the new Force fin xxl Flying force master today. Worked Saturday and Sunday on making new UDT masters. That fin takes a lot of material to cast. I was wondering, I might take some material weight out with some hand sanding. Tom Winter has been sent the first pair of tan delta material UDT fins. It will be fun to hear his comments on scubaboard. Mean while I am making the tooling for production and looking at a redesign of that foot pocket. The second I put that fin on my foot, my foot starting hurting and I was just sitting down. You should see what the positive shape of the UDT foot pocket looks like... reminds me of when I did a foot cast on my Jet fins. The foot shape reminds me of some thing you would split wood with, no relationship to a human foot. Hey off to sand. Best Bob