Force Fin Sticker shock

[sibermike7]

Sibermike7, I think that diver on the Discovery channel might have been John Chatterton. I had a good visit with Kevin Gurr of VR Technology Limited at the Dema Show. He has been using the Excellerating Tan Delta for over 9 years now. Kevin is a Tek diver for sure. Also ran into Rosemary E. Lunn from UK and she is also a tekie. The list goes on and I think the Extra Force and Excellerating Force make sense for tech diving along with the new SD-1 Military fin. Best bob

I believe that you are right that it was Chatterton. However, I don't think that he was using Extra Force or Excellerating. The fins he had looked exactly like my FF Pros except mine are yellow and his were black. I wouldn't have anything but FF because they work for me.

Mike

 

[vicdiver656]

$786.25??? Are you kidding me???? Try out a pair of Morfin Natural Delfins for well under $200. You'll be very happy with these fins.

The whiskers, in my opinion, defeat the smoothness and efficiency of the excellerating tan deltas. They actually add resistance to your kick equating to more leg and ankle strain. I think if you dive with whiskers, then dive without (they are removable I believe) you'll be happier without. The snappiness is cool and they will move you but energy is not free. You'll have to kick hard to get it to snap hard.

I've tried a lot of fins, including several models of Force Fins, but can not justify that kind of money for 'performance'. You're only doing a knot or two at best when you dive! And as far as calling Force Fins the Rolls Royce of fins, what on earth do you base that on?? Out of the league Price? Materials? Design? Performance? Warranty? Social Status? I definitely don't see it that way, does anyone else?

By the way, someone mentioned that you couldn't add anything to make these more expensive. You could actually add the Force Wings to these for only $189.95 more. (I wonder if they would credit you for not going with the whiskers?) I mean, why would they put whiskers on them at $93.69 retail instead of Force Wings at $189.95 retail and sell them as the best in the line?? Wouldn't the price of each option alone lead you to believe the Force Wings are at least twice as good as Whiskers??? Confusing to me and I'm not sold that this is the 'Top of the Line' fin if it has Whiskers instead of Force Wings.

Maybe you're just paying a lot more to have Bob Evans personally sign the fins for you!! HA! I'd do more than just sign them for you if you paid me almost 800 bucks for a pair!! I can see it now in black sharpie on your Sapphire Blue Polyurethane or Amethyst Purple Blades..."Dear scuba moron, thanks for shelling out over a months rent for my fins! Hope you like 'em! BFF, Bob" LOL!! This cracks me up just thinking about it! (Please, no offense scuba moron but your screen name kind of cracks me up too!)

In reading through the Force Fin website I see this: (quote) Optional Force Wings (pictured with Speed Pods) can be turned to increase resistance --intensifying your swim workout even more, or to decrease resistance, for specific swim stroke correction or to target specific muscles.

I guess if you're looking for a muscle workout you may want to increase resistance. To me, increasing my resistance in the water is just making more work for me, thereby leading to overexertion and stress. I don't want to dive like that. I am a big fan on MINIMIZING resistance. You'll never get me to give up my Morfins, they have the least resistance of any fin I've ever tried in the water!

$786.25!! How did they come up with that number anyway?! Blows my mind!

Haha....I'm laughing as I read this (no offense Doug, you've got some great info in here) Here's one thing I'll toss in here....

I have tried Force Fins, and I was not overly impressed. They made helicopter turns, frog kicks, and overall diving somewhat uncomfortable. I regularly use XSScuba Turtles, and I found that the Force Fins came nowhere close to putting out the same force at the same effort to the Turtles.

I have seen (not tried......) the Morfins, and although they look like something from outer space, I like the design. (BTW Doug, I was one of the divers you met the other day at Makena Landing, we were diving with Tim, and you came over asking if I had a problem with my BC ) Doug showed me a pair of his Morfins, which he said had around 400 dives on. The only thing I saw were a few surface nicks, and one or two little slices.....not bad for 400 dives.... I have a pair of Rocket Fins that had only 230 dives on them when I bought them (or so the seller said) and they looked like garbage. There were tears all over them, and were bent out of shape. (many of you are wondering why I bought them....the only reason was because they were being sold for $30, and I needed a pair of backup fins)

As to the price, I have to admit that $786.25 is really steep.... I paid $120 new for my Turtles, and would never pay that much for Force Fins.....I'm surprised that Force Fins still have a market, maybe it's just because they have a contract with the Canadian (and U.S., I think?) Navy

Anyways, that's my $0.02.

Taylor
Vicdiver656

 

[Bob Evans]

Vicdiver656, amazing thoughts, I am glad that I am still around keeping many American workers at work today. If you really understood what we are doing each day at Force Fin you might take another tone. Glad you like to dive. Best bob

 

[Tom Winters]

...I like to provide you with a cement pair of fin's...

Hmmmm.... ferrocement. With the new emphasis on green manufacturing, this could work, although it would be an uphill sell all the way. No plastics.
Hey, how about this: "Ferrocement Force Fins - Forged Naturally From the Earth!" or maybe "If Mother Nature Wore Fins, She'd Wear These!"
I bet AlGore would want to test these babies out.

 

[sibermike7]

I bet AlGore would want to test these babies out.

Hey, I don't care HOW much Bob wanted to charge for them (gotta pay for R&D, wouldn't want them coming off!), if IGore will wear them, I'll contribute to the purchase price!

 

[Bob Evans]

Tom, I made the UDT fin and showed it at DEMA. A lot of interest, from divers like your self. Contact our office and I will send you the first pair to try out. Blue Tan Delta. I am not happy with the heel strap and was thinking about putting on a bungee strap system. Someone mentioned the xs scuba spring strap but I have never been sold on the spring concept. The bungee is so light and does not set up problems for military divers with mines. I am going to remodel the Jet fin in Tan Delta material. I used the Jet Fin for over 20 years and it will kick butt in a better material than rubber. Now the cost part... Poly-urethane is not cheap. Waiting for your call. Best bob

 

[evil_xander]

.. I am going to remodel the Jet fin in Tan Delta material. I used the Jet Fin for over 20 years and it will kick butt in a better material than rubber.

This would be interesting to see & try, I hope you can make them negative as that's also one of their benefits (for some people, myself included) to counter the floaty feet in drysuits.

 

[Bob Evans]

Evil xannder, no problem the Poly-urethane well help keep the fin down. Vickie who runs the day to day operations here, her dad was Big Jim Christiansen of Scubapro. He gave me my first pair of Jet fins back in 1967 when I was working at Dive N' Surf. It's sometimes a small world and it will take me a few weeks to make high performance Jet Fins. Right now I think they must cost about $ 7.00 to make out of rubber. Our cost might be around $80.00 per pair but I know from years of working with hand-cast Poly-urethanes you will feel the difference. To keep the cost down they will only come from me direct. Let's see what the UDT does for Tom. Thanks for your interest. I still stand for the Force Fin concepts, but we have diver's who will go to their graves loving Jet fins so why not give this classic fin design a up-lift from rubber. Best bob

 

[Scott M]

Evil xannder, no problem the Poly-urethane well help keep the fin down. Vickie who runs the day to day operations here, her dad was Big Jim Christiansen of Scubapro. He gave me my first pair of Jet fins back in 1967 when I was working at Dive N' Surf. It's sometimes a small world and it will take me a few weeks to make high performance Jet Fins. Right now I think they must cost about $ 7.00 to make out of rubber. Our cost might be around $80.00 per pair but I know from years of working with hand-cast Poly-urethanes you will feel the difference. To keep the cost down they will only come from me direct. Let's see what the UDT does for Tom. Thanks for your interest. I still stand for the Force Fin concepts, but we have diver's who will go to their graves loving Jet fins so why not give this classic fin design a up-lift from rubber. Best bob

Bob, Very interested in this design myself. I look forward to this fin with great anticipation. What are your thoughts on foot pocket sizing? And for the record I think you are right on the bungee's instead of the springs but if you are entertaining the springs the XS scuba are a great spring as are the ones used by Hollis on thier tech fin.

As a side note, I got to see the FF's being used for a frog kick for the first time recently. The lady using them looked to be an avid diver and the fins looked well used so it was obviously not her first use of them. She frog kicked exactly as I do. In comparison I was wearing XL slipstrteams at the time. My total rig was much more streamed lined then hers just to give total disclosure. We were on a wreck where getting in close, backing up and no silt was important. She moved well with them forward, it appeared to take her a longer stroke to move and she seemed limited as to how fast she could travel with this kick but they did indeed work. She did not have a great ability to back up but they may well be technique. Kick for kick and I made it a point to be side by side and diving as one should in a relaxed no hurry to get anywhere type of diving, she had to use 3 kicks to my one more than likely due to my fin size compared to hers but I could see her fins give way very easily. I believe for warm water diving this fin would be a very suitable fin even using a frog kick. I do however feel for a drysuit diver they would not have adaquate strength to move a diver compared to a blade fin. I can frog kick my slipstreams hard enough to feel them fold, I can not do this with my Hollis fins. I find my Hollis fins to be the bare minumum I would accept while diving dry. just my opinions of course but I would be interested in your thoughts on my review.

Regards

 

[meesier42]

boy, I can just see it now, a whole new Sticker Shock thread when the FF TanDelta Jet Fin knock-off. Really, a fin that the parts cost is higher than Jets (and their knock-offs) retail for...

specially since Bob already makes his own version, that isn't a direct knock-off of the Jet, that also has a much improved footpocket that will make everyone that moans about foot pocket sizing happy.

The Military SD-1 fin is very similar to the Jet, about the same size and similar characteristics, although very different in that the footpocket is better (no more arch or toe cramps), its not as heavy nor is it negative, but it also easier to walk in, don and doff, and anyone from a size 5 womens up to my 13 with DS boots can wear them, which is one of the reasons I often have them laying about. I have 2 major things that I have noticed that I prefer 1) Footpocket doen't cramp my foot 2) the footpocket and the more responsive blade don't strain my knees, ankles, or hips so I can maintain a very powerful kick for an extended period

and... please lets not whine about the price of that fin too. its a great fin, and the price is somewhat elevated because of its foot pocket and hand lacing of the pocket and as of thus far, each and every one of them is personallized for each owner

anyone in the DC area (including as far at the OBX and Lake Rawlings) is welcome to try them, just PM me and we'll arrange a dive day and I'll make them available for you to try.