Fix ANY Dacor Reg with two simple steps (Don't get mad)

[scubafanatic]

Servicing, let alone actual repairing, regulators has become so expensive it is questionable if it makes sense to fix any of them. I have noticed a trend toward buying a decent regulator, using it for 2-3 years, selling it on E-bay, and putting that money plus the saved service fees towards buying a new one.

On lower end priced regs, that is more true, but on higher priced regs service costs represent a lower $ percentage the value of a higher priced reg, so it makes more sense to servive/repair those units. There can be other motivations to spend good $ on service/repair of even lower priced regs, for example I like the 'cool' factor of my vintage Scubapro MK 5/ 109-156's, so I'm OK with sinking some service/repair/upgrade $ into what would otherwise be 'cheap' lower $ regs.

I did a bit of pre-purchase research on my Scubapros to make sure that at least the service parts/service techs were still reasonably available before I started investing in them, with respect to the old Dacors, anyone foolish enough to invest in those deserved what they got, but luckily for them the old Dacors are so cheap it's an inexpensive life lesson for them.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The other thing is to realize that you don't need to have the average reg serviced every year unless you are putting 200-300 dives a year on them. Even then they still may not need more than good tuning and cleaning. I have a dozen regs and they get rebuilt when they need it. By me. If you buy regs you can service yourself and are ok with doing that it's the way to go. For those on the fence some mfg's offer classes and to those who want to do their own. I have certified 8 people now to service their own regs.

 

[tbone1004]

Jim, you hit it on the head and that's why the free parts for life nonsense is just a ploy to keep the dive shops in business. I don't know a single tech diver who has their regs serviced on a regular schedule. They get an IP check before each trip to make sure the first stage is happy, and when the IP stops locking up, the whole lot gets serviced. Second stage servicing is a bit trickier, but I generally service them every other time the first stages ask for it....

 

[halocline]

I do not understnad why some folks will spend $50,000 on a vehicle but refuse to pay $400ish - $750ish for new regulators (that you breathe from).

Because basically you can get a regulator for $100 that performs as well or better than a $750 dive shop shiny job, that's why. Expensive regulators, like expensive cars, are mostly sold on narcissism and hype. But, at least with cars there really is a difference between a Mercedes and a Kia. Or more to point, there is a real difference between a new Mercedes and a 20 year old one.

 

[tbone1004]

obviously you own a dive shop, one that while I haven't been, I do know most of the guys there quite well, so excuse me for being an a$$ but genuine question since you started it

You're obviously at a disadvantage to Mike because of volume, so excuse the slight price difference between you guys, $25 on the D3/Zenith

What makes this
Hog D1 Regulator Set - Dive Right in Scuba
D1/Classic from Hog for $180

half as good as this
Hog D3 Zenith Regulator Package
Hog D3/Zenith, for twice the price, same basic regulator, identical guts on the second stage, same basic design of the first. $350

which is half as good as this
Zeagle Flathead 7
which doesn't have a swivel turret or as good of a warranty as the Hog. $600

http://www.njpstore.com/Atomic-B2-Regulator-AtomicB2.htm
which is almost as good as this, which is unsealed, but does have a turret, $700

which is half as good as this
Atomic T3 Regulator
which is just idiotic, but not sealed, can't use high O2 percentages with it.

The Hog D1 is certainly not a tenth of the regulator as the Atomic T3, nor half the regulator of the D3. It's as cheap as it is due to clearing stock, but it's still the available price. Not sure how accurate your prices are since you have the Petrel 2 marked $100 over the MSRP, but the Hog prices were close.

So the question comes back to you, what makes your $750 regulator set any better than the Poseidon set that I just paid $300 for? Genuine question, not being obstinate, just trying to see your justification aside from your vested interest as a dive shop owner

 

[ams511]

On lower end priced regs, that is more true, but on higher priced regs service costs represent a lower $ percentage the value of a higher priced reg, so it makes more sense to servive/repair those units.

The correct decision is whether the cost of servicing plus the resale value of the old regulator plus whatever value you put on a new regulator equals the price of a new regulator. When dive shops charge $35 a stage and another $25 for parts because you don't have parts for life then it may pay even to sell a top of the line regulator and purchase something more modest but works just as well. Especially if you purchase the new regulator on sale.

 

[NC Air Hog]

obviously you own a dive shop, one that while I haven't been, I do know most of the guys there quite well, so excuse me for being an a$$ but genuine question since you started it

You're obviously at a disadvantage to Mike because of volume, so excuse the slight price difference between you guys, $25 on the D3/Zenith

The Hog D1 is certainly not a tenth of the regulator as the Atomic T3, nor half the regulator of the D3. It's as cheap as it is due to clearing stock, but it's still the available price. Not sure how accurate your prices are since you have the Petrel 2 marked $100 over the MSRP, but the Hog prices were close.

So the question comes back to you, what makes your $750 regulator set any better than the Poseidon set that I just paid $300 for? Genuine question, not being obstinate, just trying to see your justification aside from your vested interest as a dive shop owner

You sure do seem to know a lot about me and my business. I think it is great that you dive $300 Poseidon regulators that you can rebuild yourself. What makes regulators from a dive shop better? Not everyone can rebuild their own set and like to know that there is a place to go in case something breaks or a tank falls on them etc. Others enjoy the dive shop environment in that it is kind of like a bar without the alcohol until after 6 o'clock. In essence, my $750 reg set is simply better because it is brand new with a warranty. You may not want to accept that and rail against those who purchase new items from a dive shop, but not everyone thinks the same way you do.

As far as addressing my pricing and my website, I would say that you seem to be a smart young man and can figure all of the business side of the industry out for yourself. Just ask the manufacturers and training agency CEOs that you speak with on a daily basis.

 

[tbone1004]

your pricing is fine aside from the Petrel which is $100 over MSRP, the regulators are all within normal, was just commenting that I had to list DRiS for the D1/Classic set, and that you were $25 high on the D3/Zenith but you price match, so no harm no foul. That's the reason when people in that area ask me where to go for gear I send them to your shop even though it's very much out of the way for them compared to some of the others.

The real question is if I can go into your shop and spend $550 and buy a full Hog regulator set from you, why would I spend $750 and buy a Tusa or Zeagle or Atomic set? What makes those regulators worth $200+ more than the Hog? Either similar or inferior warranty, quality is clearly a nonissue with the amount of expedition divers using the Hogs now. It's a question going back to your original question about why people will spend $50k on a car, but not $750 on a reg set, you don't have to get the expensive ones to get the quality and performance in scuba, it's not like automotive where spending an extra 20% can put you in a much nicer vehicle, it doesn't work like that. That Atomic in titanium is a gimmic, titanium works no better than brass at flowing air, sure it's lighter, but it's also a massive first stage, and isn't O2 compatible, so why would someone pay $1700 for a first and second stage for any reason other than to say they have it?

My Poseidon set was just to point out that you can buy used and save well over $600 off what that set would be new, and aside from a warranty, which most regs shouldn't need, the only warranty work I've seen that wasn't product recalls was from botched servicing and to keep the warranties on most of the new regs, you have to follow very strict service protocols which just isn't worth it. Hog has won that battle so far. I also don't speak with these guys on a daily basis, but I do know quite a few of them and speak with them regularly enough to know what is going on, do design work with some of them as well, but none of those discussions are MSRP based, I stay out of that nonsense. I have no issue with any of your pricing as long as it is at or below MSRP, it's an MSRP for a reason and if the other guys want to undercut they can do as they please, the one mentioned above and a few others have irritated a few of the companies because of it, but because of their volume of sales it's hard to argue with them. Was just mentioning the Petrel because it was above MSRP which is actually what most of the big online guys are selling it for because the margin at MSRP is much lower than most gear.

You're the best shop in the triangle right now, there's no arguing that, and the only other shop in the state really worth going to other than NADCO in Greensboro, and all of the tech divers very much appreciate what you're trying to do, but if you can't answer your own question, which I would very much like to know the answer to, then it shouldn't be asked. So to you Mr. Norris, what makes your $750 Zeagle/Diverite/Atomic reg any better than the Hog or Edge you sell right next to it for almost half that price? The Hog comes out of the same factory as the Dive Rite, it's not made in the USA, and since Zeagle dropped domestic production of their regs, Atomic is the only one that can claim that right now, so that's a selling point to them, but quality, and performance wise they are all essentially the same, so sell me the expensive one over the hog.

 

[NC Air Hog]

Tom,

Thank you for the compliment.
Ever since I started diving with the D2, I have been suggesting that people look at HOG / EDGE regulators because of their quality and price compared to some of the others. Out of our shop, people have purchased for either Price (HOG/EDGE), warranty (Zeagle) or name recognition (Dive Rite). When someone comes in to purchase an Atomic, they usually have already come to the conclusion that they know what they want and I provide the product to them. I personally believe that the seat-saving technology in the Atomic is awesome. The fit and finish of the unit is just the best in the business today. Based on the type of diving someone does, I may suggest something different to them. For instance, if they want to go tech, then they really do not want a Titanium reg do to high O2 levels. I will say that selling HOG regulators has been very fun because of the quality they provide and the name kind of goes along with our shop which is a happy coincidence. I have been very impressed by their products and do not think that spending more money on a product makes it better. I do believe in giving the information to a customer and letting them make their own decision. If the customer determines that spending $600 more dollars for a name or better finish is worth it, then I am certainly not going to argue with them.

 

[tbone1004]

then you answered your own question and well done, though I'd argue that the warranty of the Hog is easily on par with the others, how do you argue with lifetime hard parts warranty?

I do agree wholeheartedly with your original post Dacor reasoning due to the parts issues, Mares really screwed everyone with that decision, and with how cheap you guys are able to sell the Hogs it's a no brainer, plus, they do actually breathe better than most of them....