First used regulator help

[halocline]

Positive, I just retested it. No air is pulled from either end when the two are connected to the first stage together.

So, if I have this straight:
1. Breathing from the titan 2nd stage you can draw air from either the ABS octo or the atomic Z2, while both the titan and one of the other 2nd stages are connected to the same 1st stage and the dust cap is in place. Those are the only two scenarios where you can draw air. Any other combination holds vacuum.
2. You disconnect the titan from the hose, cover the threaded attachment point, and it holds vacuum.

If both of those things are true, it points to a problem in the hose connection for the titan. Try the vacuum test with the titan, but disconnected at the 1st stage, so you're also testing vacuum on the hose.

While you're drawing air on the titan, presumably flowing from one of the other 2nds, you can stop the flow of air by covering the mouthpiece opening of either the octo or the atomic. Have you tried that?

Definitely you want to pressurize and submerge everything in a tub, and look for bubbles.

It's not easy to hear where vacuum leaks are coming from. You can also try taking the 2nd stages off the 1st stage (leaving hoses attached to the 2nd stage) and submerging the 2nd stages, then try to suck water up the hose like a straw. You can even submerge part of the 2nd stage to help isolate the leak if you find you can pull water up.

 

[axxel57]

There are quite some possibilities why one could draw some air through the mouth piece of a 2nd stage even when the system is closed..

But I see only one way to suck air in the other direction towards the1st stage, that is when the crown is not closing with LP seat, for example if there is a LP seat saver system like the Atomic ones or the the inlet fitting ( hose connector) is loose. Could be also a bad adjusted crown - LP seat, but that would have shown as free flow when tested first.

If it is right that the air is coming through the ABS octo towards the 1st stage, it can be only a loose inlet fitting (hose connector), I don't think there is another possibility.

Otherwise the air is coming from somewhere else.

 

[MJcK]

So, if I have this straight:
1. Breathing from the titan 2nd stage you can draw air from either the ABS octo or the atomic Z2, while both the titan and one of the other 2nd stages are connected to the same 1st stage and the dust cap is in place. Those are the only two scenarios where you can draw air. Any other combination holds vacuum.

This is correct.

2. You disconnect the titan from the hose, cover the threaded attachment point, and it holds vacuum.

Yes

If both of those things are true, it points to a problem in the hose connection for the titan. Try the vacuum test with the titan, but disconnected at the 1st stage, so you're also testing vacuum on the hose.

I have done this, and it holds vacuum when I cover the end of the hose (I've also tested the titan on other hoses).

While you're drawing air on the titan, presumably flowing from one of the other 2nds, you can stop the flow of air by covering the mouthpiece opening of either the octo or the atomic. Have you tried that?

I believe it would, but I can not cover the entire mouthpiece. I will try to use a mouthpiece retainer.

Definitely you want to pressurize and submerge everything in a tub, and look for bubbles.

If there are no bubbles, is it safe to assume that the reg is good to go?

It's not easy to hear where vacuum leaks are coming from. You can also try taking the 2nd stages off the 1st stage (leaving hoses attached to the 2nd stage) and submerging the 2nd stages, then try to suck water up the hose like a straw. You can even submerge part of the 2nd stage to help isolate the leak if you find you can pull water up.

I will try this once I get home. It looks like I may be taking the ABS on the next dive.


---------- Post added April 30th, 2013 at 12:05 PM ----------

There are quite some possibilities why one could draw some air through the mouth piece of a 2nd stage even when the system is closed..

But I see only one way to suck air in the other direction towards the1st stage, that is when the crown is not closing with LP seat, for example if there is a LP seat saver system like the Atomic ones or the the inlet fitting ( hose connector) is loose. Could be also a bad adjusted crown - LP seat, but that would have shown as free flow when tested first.

If it is right that the air is coming through the ABS octo towards the 1st stage, it can be only a loose inlet fitting (hose connector), I don't think there is another possibility.

Otherwise the air is coming from somewhere else.

Looks like the only thing left to do is submerge it, I've tightened everything down so I don't think anything is loose.

 

[halocline]

Something's not adding up, at least from what I can figure. If you can draw air from the titan (presumably through the ABS octo) there's a leak somewhere and it seems like your other tests have eliminated all the possibilities. The titan isolated with it's hose holds vacuum, but apparently the other 2nd stages do as well. There's no other place it can leak except the 1st stage itself, and that would leak with all the 2nds.

Try the bubble test first with your reg fully assembled, see if there are any bubbles. I think you said earlier in the thread that someone pressurized it and it was fine; usually you'll hear even a fairly small leak. Anyhow....try that first. No leaks? Then try:

1. Remove each 2nd stage from it's hose. Cover up the inlet port (threaded part the hose attaches to) and make sure they all hold vacuum.

2. Put a hose on each, try again, covering up the 1st stage end of the hose. You should also try sucking on the 1st stage end of the hose. In that scenario, you should be able to get a little air from the atomic, although I'm not sure if the seat saver will completely remove the orifice from the seat. It's supposed to I believe. The other two should be airtight in both directions.

3. If the titan and ABS octo both hold vacuum in those tests, assemble the rig again, put it on a tank securely but with the valve off, and suck again. You really should not get any air this time. Now, if you're a real sucker (sorry.....) and you can pull the equivalent of several inches of water, you could, with serious effort, pull air past the exhaust valve of any of these 2nds. I think they're supposed to hold vacuum at 5" or so of water, that's a guess, but basically you want the 2nd stage to be airtight at some reasonable amount of pressure differential far beyond what you'll experience in the water, which is a couple of inches at most.

 

[MrSam]

Problem still not solved? Drop me a message

 

[MJcK]

Something's not adding up, at least from what I can figure. If you can draw air from the titan (presumably through the ABS octo) there's a leak somewhere and it seems like your other tests have eliminated all the possibilities. The titan isolated with it's hose holds vacuum, but apparently the other 2nd stages do as well. There's no other place it can leak except the 1st stage itself, and that would leak with all the 2nds.

Try the bubble test first with your reg fully assembled, see if there are any bubbles. I think you said earlier in the thread that someone pressurized it and it was fine; usually you'll hear even a fairly small leak. Anyhow....try that first. No leaks? Then try:

Sam loaned me his tank to try the bubble test with, we submerged it in water and saw no bubbles. I took a breath from each second stage, neither the second stage I was breathing through nor the other stage created bubbles.

1. Remove each 2nd stage from it's hose. Cover up the inlet port (threaded part the hose attaches to) and make sure they all hold vacuum.

Sam tested this, all the second stages hold vacuum when this is done.

2. Put a hose on each, try again, covering up the 1st stage end of the hose. You should also try sucking on the 1st stage end of the hose. In that scenario, you should be able to get a little air from the atomic, although I'm not sure if the seat saver will completely remove the orifice from the seat. It's supposed to I believe. The other two should be airtight in both directions.

I'll try this soon.

3. If the titan and ABS octo both hold vacuum in those tests, assemble the rig again, put it on a tank securely but with the valve off, and suck again. You really should not get any air this time. Now, if you're a real sucker (sorry.....) and you can pull the equivalent of several inches of water, you could, with serious effort, pull air past the exhaust valve of any of these 2nds. I think they're supposed to hold vacuum at 5" or so of water, that's a guess, but basically you want the 2nd stage to be airtight at some reasonable amount of pressure differential far beyond what you'll experience in the water, which is a couple of inches at most.

I'll give the last suggestion a try today. If all fails, it's going to the shop or being switched out with the hockey-puck octopus, which I was hoping to avoid.

Problem still not solved? Drop me a message

Thank you for taking the time to help me in person yesterday but the problem is still there. I'm sending you a message now.

 

[MrSam]

Just as an update, I met with Mike this morning and we spoke with the guy at my LDS over the phone. He agreed to take a look at the reg for him. I'm obviously not an expert when it comes to regs so I did not want to mess with it.

 

[buddhasummer]

Am curious as to what the cause is it does seem a little strange, an update at some stage would be appreciated. Cheers.

 

[MJcK]

Will definitely be updating soon. Just waiting to hear back from the LDS.