first experience with skill circuit

[DBailey]

I'm puzzled by your comment "At least now, with PADI, the instructor is supposed to demonstrate all of the skills then let the DMC practice". It's always been that way as long as I've been an Instructor. How else are they supposed to learn?

As recently as the 2010 Instructor Manual, it did not state that the instructor had to demonstrate the skills for the candidates. I don't know about 2011, but the 2012 Instructor Manual specifically states that the instructor is to demonstrate all of the skills for the candidates as part of the conduct of the exercise.

I learned all of the skills in my Open Water class. For my DM, there was never an instructor demonstration of the skills. I was told to re-watch the OW video for the skills. While I'd like to think that I was that good that I wouldn't benefit from the demonstration, I know that isn't the truth.

 

[TMHeimer]

As recently as the 2010 Instructor Manual, it did not state that the instructor had to demonstrate the skills for the candidates. I don't know about 2011, but the 2012 Instructor Manual specifically states that the instructor is to demonstrate all of the skills for the candidates as part of the conduct of the exercise.

I learned all of the skills in my Open Water class. For my DM, there was never an instructor demonstration of the skills. I was told to re-watch the OW video for the skills. While I'd like to think that I was that good that I wouldn't benefit from the demonstration, I know that isn't the truth.

Just out of curiosity, what was the instructor doing while you were practising the skills in the pool?

 

[SubMariner]

As recently as the 2010 Instructor Manual, it did not state that the instructor had to demonstrate the skills for the candidates. I don't know about 2011, but the 2012 Instructor Manual specifically states that the instructor is to demonstrate all of the skills for the candidates as part of the conduct of the exercise.

I learned all of the skills in my Open Water class. For my DM, there was never an instructor demonstration of the skills. I was told to re-watch the OW video for the skills. While I'd like to think that I was that good that I wouldn't benefit from the demonstration, I know that isn't the truth.

My apologies that you had an Instructor for your DM who was not doing you justice.

I've been diving since '91, an IDCS since '94. Any of the Instructors or CDs I've learned from/worked with (including my hubby) have always demo'd skills. This includes DMs & IDC Candidates. How are you supposed to learn the mechanics of demoing a skill unless they are taught how to do it?

 

[DBailey]

Just out of curiosity, what was the instructor doing while you were practising the skills in the pool?

Practice?? I was told to start the skill circuit. There was no practice. It was implied that I should already know how to do them at this point.

---------- Post Merged at 02:42 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 02:40 PM ----------

My apologies that you had an Instructor for your DM who was not doing you justice.

I've been diving since '91, an IDCS since '94. Any of the Instructors or CDs I've learned from/worked with (including my hubby) have always demo'd skills. This includes DMs & IDC Candidates. How are you supposed to learn the mechanics of demoing a skill unless they are taught how to do it?

That became evident at my IDC. We had a similar discussion then as well.

 

[TMHeimer]

DBailey, So it was implied that you should know how to demonstrate all the skills by just figuring it out on your own, maybe by watching videos, reviewing the OW manual and just going very slowly emphasizing the critical attributes? And possibly to know any quirks your instructor may add to a skill? I would think that's very unusual.

 

[Bubble Junky]

I would think that's very unusual.

I would hope that's very unusual...

 

[DBailey]

DBailey, So it was implied that you should know how to demonstrate all the skills by just figuring it out on your own, maybe by watching videos, reviewing the OW manual and just going very slowly emphasizing the critical attributes? And possibly to know any quirks your instructor may add to a skill? I would think that's very unusual.

It was implied that at the DM level, I should already know how to all of the skills and earn a "3" in each skill. Which means I could do the skill easily, just not demonstration quality.

When I took the DM course, the DMC had to do the mask remove/replace/clear skill first (outside of the skill circuit) and earn a "4", before the DMC could move on to the rest of the circuit. I earned a "4" and was told to go slower.

That "go slower" comment was the only coaching/instruction/assistance/demonstration/etc. that I received related to the skill circuit. From there, I did the skill circuit. Other DMC tht went through the skill circuit with this instructor have similar experiences.

Based on my experience, I am very glad that the new Instructor Manual specifically states that the instructor must demonstrate for the DMC first. I have the opinion that a DMC should have a "3" in each skill right out of the box without practice; however, I am also here to teach/mentor/assist them in their development.

---------- Post Merged at 09:16 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 09:14 AM ----------

I would hope that's very unusual...

Based on what I have learned and the people I have met after my DM, I agree that this instructor was the anomoly. Looking back at the instructor manuals from when I did my DM work, I can't say that he did anything wrong or against standards; however, he was not the shining example of a great instructor.

 

[LaMissJude]

I practiced dry in front my instructor, and in my bathroom looking at myself in the mirror, making sure everything was slow and clear enough...
Everyday, my instructor asked me to come with some skills prepared (she was choosing the skills I had to prepare). I had to do a proper briefing for every skill, then demonstrate them dry, without a word of course.
I had a squeleton for preparing my briefings:
1-name of the skills
2-objective of the skill
3-value of the skill
4-description of the skill
5-tips and signals

Being able to give good and clear demonstration is important, as well as good briefings...
You'll have to find your own way, with your personality and practice, to make everything clear and fluid. Listen to briefings from different instructors if possible, as well as demonstrations, and you'll see that, even if we all say more or less the same things about the same skill, none of us is saying it exactly the same way, or even demonstrating it exactly the same way.
We found the way that works the best for us. And what works for me, might not work for you... I took many tricks from other instructors, and tried also some that sounded and looked wicked, but were not working for me
And of course, you have to also adapt to the guest/student you have in front of you...

I hope you'll enjoyed your DMT as much as I enjoyed mine, that was a wicked time for me!

 

[SubMariner]

I practiced dry in front my instructor, and in my bathroom looking at myself in the mirror, making sure everything was slow and clear enough...
Everyday, my instructor asked me to come with some skills prepared (she was choosing the skills I had to prepare). I had to do a proper briefing for every skill, then demonstrate them dry, without a word of course.
I had a squeleton for preparing my briefings:
1-name of the skills
2-objective of the skill
3-value of the skill
4-description of the skill
5-tips and signals

Being able to give good and clear demonstration is important, as well as good briefings...
You'll have to find your own way, with your personality and practice, to make everything clear and fluid. Listen to briefings from different instructors if possible, as well as demonstrations, and you'll see that, even if we all say more or less the same things about the same skill, none of us is saying it exactly the same way, or even demonstrating it exactly the same way.
We found the way that works the best for us. And what works for me, might not work for you... I took many tricks from other instructors, and tried also some that sounded and looked wicked, but were not working for me
And of course, you have to also adapt to the guest/student you have in front of you...

I hope you'll enjoyed your DMT as much as I enjoyed mine, that was a wicked time for me!

I think you may be blurring the line here between what a PADI DM is required to do and what an Instructor is required to do when handling OW students, because your checklist is basically the Instructor checklist for confined water training with OW students.

If the Instructor is using a Certified Assistant to demo the skill instead of doing it themselves, the briefing and all other aspects of describing the skill, how to do it, what is to be expected of the student u/w during the session, signals, positioning, etc. are all handled by the Instructor. This includes indicating that the DM will be performing the demonstration.

Under the direct supervision of the Instructor, the DM demos the skill. The DM then becomes the one watching the students while the Instructor evaluates each student as to their mastery of the skill. If mastery is not achieved, the Instructor can pass the student to the DM for practice, at which time the DM may be required to demo the skill (again). After sufficient practice the student is returned to the Instructor for re-evaluation of mastery.

The only time a DM would be doing any similar type of briefing would be if they were conducting skin diving or snorkeling programs; they are not authorized to conduct anything above that level. Of course, DM briefings for dive sites or when they act as dive guides for certified divers are completely different than teaching situations.

 

[ElGaucho]

I couldn´t agree less.

If a DM can actually do a scuba refresher on it´s own, why shouldn´t he brief stuff? Or be able to explain stuff? This is such an "instructor factory PADI CDC" view of diving and pro education that gives me the creeps. It´s all about making a DM WANT to continue on to Instructor, he must feel the NEED. Goddam pyramid scheme. A DM should be able to brief, explain and evaluate, as well as give a professional opinion on the development of skills for a student. This is not to say that they should overview a class, but please cut it with the PADI CDC viewpoint of things. There is no need to sell further career enhancements here.