Question Fins for weak ankles (ankle joints replaced)

[Merlous]

Hi,
I'm based in the UK (North West/Midlands) and just getting back into diving after having a 10 year break due to operations.
The main operations have been around my feet and I have had both my ankle joints replaced. This was due to athritis which I have had since I was 6, I'm now 45.

My consultant has given me the all clear as I have done a pool dive with a few different fins and discovered I was okay but my old Tusa Imprex were not as comfy on my ankles.

I found the original Oceanic Vipers to be very comfortable but I'm wondering if anyone else can recommend any others that are easy going on the ankle joints. Or if anyone know how the Viper 2 compare to the original?

I'm looking at open heel fins as I wear boots to help protect my feet and to help give support to my ankles.

Any advice, thoughts and impressions would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[-JD-]

What style of kicking do you use?

If it is a flutter type, I have 2 suggestions that you might see if you can give a pool try:

• Force Fins or Force Fin Pros (slightly stiffer/snappier) They are optimized for a faster, lower amplitude flutter kick and are quite efficient. Power is from the downstroke with a softer up/recovery stroke. The foot pocket geometry favors rounded boot soles you might need to upsize if uo have square edged soles.
• This is ScubaBoard heresy, but Atomic Split-fins. These favor a longer kick stroke, but with less ankle strength needed than a stiff paddle type fin. They come in 2 stiffness compounds depending on the color. The "Smoke on the Water version has the stiffer "high-energy" compound and spring-straps. They also are quite good for snorkeling.

Neither would be the right choice if you frog-kick predominantly.

 

[Merlous]

What style of kicking do you use?

If it is a flutter type, I have 2 suggestions that you might see if you can give a pool try:

• Force Fins or Force Fin Pros (slightly stiffer/snappier) They are optimized for a faster, lower amplitude flutter kick and are quite efficient. Power is from the downstroke with a softer up/recovery stroke. The foot pocket geometry favors rounded boot soles you might need to upsize if uo have square edged soles.
• This is ScubaBoard heresy, but Atomic Split-fins. These favor a longer kick stroke, but with less ankle strength needed than a stiff paddle type fin. They come in 2 stiffness compounds depending on the color. The "Smoke on the Water version has the stiffer "high-energy" compound and spring-straps. They also are quite good for snorkeling.

Neither would be the right choice if you frog-kick predominantly.

Thanks for the reply, I knew I forgot something!

I tend to flutter kick, my ankles had even worse movement before my operations so I tended to stick with flutter.

I had been reading up on the force fins before posting and I'm very intrigued by them. In most cases they seem perfect as easier to walk in, no pressure on the toes etc. Ideally it would be great to find someone who would let me try them out.
I think I have what would be classed as curved sole boots, I have attached a photo.

From reading up the Pros would be better if my ankles can take them.

I think they had atomic split fins at the pool but they were enclosed foot so I didn't try them. Plus I think the thinking was the Vipers gave better power with the flexible membrane so if they worked for me they would be better...

 

[BoltSnap]

@Bob Evans

 

[johndiver999]

get a small scooter. Seriously I think that is what I would do.

 

[-JD-]

Thanks for the reply, I knew I forgot something!

I tend to flutter kick, my ankles had even worse movement before my operations so I tended to stick with flutter.

I had been reading up on the force fins before posting and I'm very intrigued by them. In most cases they seem perfect as easier to walk in, no pressure on the toes etc. Ideally it would be great to find someone who would let me try them out.
I think I have what would be classed as curved sole boots, I have attached a photo.

From reading up the Pros would be better if my ankles can take them.

I think they had atomic split fins at the pool but they were enclosed foot so I didn't try them. Plus I think the thinking was the Vipers gave better power with the flexible membrane so if they worked for me they would be better...

For the Force-Fin, the bottom radius of the foot-pocket is significant. No issue with my Aqualung Safe-sole Ergo booties, but a consideration for my Altama Maritime Assaults and the "combat boots" that I use with my drysuit. Depending on how they interacted with the different size pockets, I might be tempted to apply some utility knife shaping to the sole-edges at the ball of the foor to round them if it meant fitting the lower size just right. Force Fins do have the option of a pad for the top of the foot pocket; that can help with fit and reduce instep pressure points.

Atomic has both full-foot and open-heel versions. I'd try the full-foots if you can fit without the boots to see if they warrant further research.

The flexible membrane and the split fins both work to channel the water for thrust vs just pushing. The person that @BoltSnap tagged, Bob Evans, is the creative artist (mad scientist? ) behind all of the Force Fins and came up with the original split fins which were then copied by Atomic, Apollo, ScubaPro, etc. He has also shown his research into several membrane type fins. The Force Fin split fins would also be a contender, but I have not tried them.

Full disclosure, I have Force-Fin Pros in L and XXL, FF Hockeys in XXL, Atomic SmOTW splits, OMS Slipstreams, and Deep 6 Eddys.

You'd be welcome to try any of them, but the logistics are a bit onerous.

 

[JMBL]

What style of kicking do you use?

If it is a flutter type, I have 2 suggestions that you might see if you can give a pool try:

• Force Fins or Force Fin Pros (slightly stiffer/snappier) They are optimized for a faster, lower amplitude flutter kick and are quite efficient. Power is from the downstroke with a softer up/recovery stroke. The foot pocket geometry favors rounded boot soles you might need to upsize if uo have square edged soles.
• This is ScubaBoard heresy, but Atomic Split-fins. These favor a longer kick stroke, but with less ankle strength needed than a stiff paddle type fin. They come in 2 stiffness compounds depending on the color. The "Smoke on the Water version has the stiffer "high-energy" compound and spring-straps. They also are quite good for snorkeling.

Neither would be the right choice if you frog-kick predominantly.

I second the Force Fin. Got a xxl pair of Force Fin Pros some five years ago and don't want to use anything else. Even got a XXXL size pair to use with my drysuit (other pair doesn't fit my rock boots).

Previously I was diving Mares Avanti Quattro and Mares Power Plana (dry suit diving). I've absolutely nothing to say against the Avanti Quattro, but the Power Plana are stiff as planks, so I'm always wondering what will happen after 1 hour in the water (that's more or less the longest time I had them on).

To make a comparison, the year I got my FF Pros, I was lost at sea after the dive, for more than 2 hours, while traveling in the Azores. I was the only who didn't get cramps.

 

[bradlw]

Are the ankles weak laterally or in some other way?
If lateral, ever given thought to finding or modifying some boots to give lateral support?...maybe let the boots take some of the load....boots that can hinge in one direction but not hinge side to side....

One of my ankles seems to be a little weak ..or oddly shaped.... I noticed as a kid that when swimming a lot one would be sore after. Eventually I figured out to watch my feet while kicking in the water (this was without fins and with fins) and that foot would sort of roll around instead of a nice linear sort of flip. It's not so bad that I've had to do anything but it did cross my mind that some sort of bootie that supports lateral like a rugged hiking boot does might help.

 

[Merlous]

Weak might be the wrong word, the fear was the artificial joint might dislocate with the pressure. My consultant has always said I just need to try it as no one seems to have dived with them before or if they have it's very rare and undocumented.

I was thinking of strapping them up more but it's finding the right balance. When I started walking again I discovered boots were worse as they caused my ankles to stiffen up. I have hiked up mountain trails in Canada, Kenya and Rwanda with no problem.
I think it's more having some support but having the same freedom of movement so I can keep them moving.

My old dive boots are UK 9.5 aqua lung 5mm
My feet are short but wide which is why at the time we went with the boots as they made my feet more normal shape, that and walking barefoot hurts my feet.

With my old fins it was actually the down stroke where I felt it the most, I wouldn't say hurt but I could feel the pressure and it felt like after a while it would be very uncomfortable. The Vipers I had no problem with. I did try another set of fins that were hinged/pivot possibly Scubspro but these were between the Vipers and my old Imprex for comfort

Possibly a bit too much info but it all helps.

 

[Merlous]

For the Force-Fin, the bottom radius of the foot-pocket is significant. No issue with my Aqualung Safe-sole Ergo booties, but a consideration for my Altama Maritime Assaults and the "combat boots" that I use with my drysuit. Depending on how they interacted with the different size pockets, I might be tempted to apply some utility knife shaping to the sole-edges at the ball of the foor to round them if it meant fitting the lower size just right. Force Fins do have the option of a pad for the top of the foot pocket; that can help with fit and reduce instep pressure points.

Atomic has both full-foot and open-heel versions. I'd try the full-foots if you can fit without the boots to see if they warrant further research.

The flexible membrane and the split fins both work to channel the water for thrust vs just pushing. The person that @BoltSnap tagged, Bob Evans, is the creative artist (mad scientist? ) behind all of the Force Fins and came up with the original split fins which were then copied by Atomic, Apollo, ScubaPro, etc. He has also shown his research into several membrane type fins. The Force Fin split fins would also be a contender, but I have not tried them.

Full disclosure, I have Force-Fin Pros in L and XXL, FF Hockeys in XXL, Atomic SmOTW splits, OMS Slipstreams, and Deep 6 Eddys.

You'd be welcome to try any of them, but the logistics are a bit onerous.

Thanks for all the info, especially the shaping of the sole, something so simple but probably overlooked.

I do have relatives in PA and Georgia but still a logistical nightmare as no plans to go out there soon.

Might be an awkward question but if you can answer it how would you say your Atomic Splits compare to the FF and FF pro on the down stroke with pressure on the ankle?