Fins for currents

[FM1520]

UTD Equipment Fins - YouTube

good explanation of what makes a good fin.

 

[danvolker]

UTD Equipment Fins - YouTube

good explanation of what makes a good fin.

I think Andrew's refusal to consider speed or propulsive efficiency, comes from his group doing most of their diving in areas with only slight current or no current, and certainly does not relate well to having an interest as a marine life videographer---where folllowing large marine life means sometimes cruising faster than is feasible to do with fins as inefficient as jetfins. If all I wanted to do was cave dive, or deep wreck penetrations( with no fishlife), then jets would be fine
The training they and GUE offers will represent a great new set of tools to help divers enjoy more adventure...However, there are graduates that will go out and have spectacular buddy skills, but they won't actually be able to think about "any mission other than being a buddy".

I say you need the skills, the buddy awareness, AND you need to be able to get around to the high interest areas of a shipwreck or reef. This will involve propulsive efficiency and speed sometimes in high current areas....Fish will concentrate in areas of high currents, sometimes in the most spectacular fashions.

If I was to get some of Andrews disciples to be models for a video shoot on a high current wreck off of Palm Beach, with 50 Goliath Groupers and massive swarms of baitballs everywhere, the real problem would be the "models" having no sense of how to be where they are supposed to be, or how to get there, given no training or thought about moving quickly when conditions call for it.

As to the scooter comment....while I have a scooter, because of my filming, scooters are NOT feasible for each of 12 to 20 divers to have on a dive boat. There would be no place to store them, many would not last through a three tank dive, and in a large percentage of our diving, you may only need speed for a few half minute long periods in a dive...hardly worth $3500 to most divers for a grand total of 4 minutes in an hour long dive......
I still say the Big DiveR Freediving fins are vastly better for open reef dives( and can be used to do reverse kicks -but are much harder to reverse kick with than jets--more tiring to your shins) ....and for shipwreck penetrations, I am now squarely behind the Excellerating Force Fin, as a fin that can do all the precision of a jetfin, but will have vastly more efficiency for high speed bursts when required.
After I went through GUE fundamentals, I spent at least 8 months trying to use jet fins or Hollis f1's on the vast majority of my dives....the whole "team concept" thing....But whenever conditions for video got really dramatic, I found these fins to be a severe liability. They were stealing video opportunities from me, because they could not offer the speed I would need for one minute here, or there. They would be fine for the vast majority of this dive, but just when the money shot is happening, they stink.
So for me, you will NOT see me wearing jets or Hollis F1's again....I am in DiveR's on the reef, and for real penetrations, the Excellerating Force Fin.
If i plan a team dive with a bunch of my GUE buddies, I can certainly use my Excellerating Force Fins (It seems to really bother some of them, when I have freediving fins on

 

[The Chairman]

There were a couple of points in Andrew's presentation that were just wrong. The idea of the fin stopping your head from going lower was kind of preposterous. Good trim should not need a "toe hold" to be maintained. Also, I disagree with his explanation of how split fins ruin that toe hold. Split fins just collapse under extreme pressure. They are soft for softies. Hard core divers get more from a stiff paddle fin. Now, unlike Dan, I love my Hollis Batfins (F-1s) because they do everything I need them to do. They are incredibly easy to back fin with and in the cases where I need to go fast... well I avoid those cases. I try tp work smarter, not harder and will find a route with less current, or use the current to my advantage. It's a big ocean. I'm not going to see it all in one day, so I'm going to go slow, take my time and extend my air. If there is a current, I will start my dive into it and use the reef as shelter as much as possible. This means going low, seeking out the eddies and avoiding the current chutes. If I do have to endure current, I have the legs to do that. How did I get those legs? I dive a lot. I need to get over to the pool a lot more and get my cardio back, but my core is solid because I exercise it.

Mind you, I would like to try his Excellerating Force Fins. I am a huge fan of Bob Evans and Force Fins in particular and these sound quite promising. I tested out a bunch of Bob's fins back when I had two ankle surgeries and they were great for flutter kicks. I frog kick almost exclusively and I think Dan does too. It's great to hear that Bob has a fin out now that will accommodate guys like us.

 

[Nemrod]

If I was to get some of Andrews disciples to be models for a video shoot on a high current wreck off of Palm Beach, with 50 Goliath Groupers and massive swarms of baitballs everywhere, the real problem would be the "models" having no sense of how to be where they are supposed to be, or how to get there, given no training or thought about moving quickly when conditions call for it.

Been there and done that and know exactly what you mean. While I still like my Jets, there is a place for everything and WPB is sometimes the place for LONG freediving fins.

This dogma driven equipment/fins thing is tiresome as is the frog kicking (only) silliness.

N

 

[The Chairman]

This dogma driven equipment/fins thing is tiresome as is the frog kicking (only) silliness.

There is a place for everything. Unfortunately, few learn to frog kick properly, so they look like a spastic cat and go nowhere when they try it. 98% of my propulsion is a gentle frog kick which extends my air and maintains visibility. What's silly is a diver flutter kicking their way through a swim through with little thought to the degraded vis of the divers behind them.

 

[Nemrod]

There is a place for everything. Unfortunately, few learn to frog kick properly, so they look like a spastic cat and go nowhere when they try it.

I generally try to avoid spastic cats while diving, just saying.

N

 

[Tigerman]

I generally try to avoid spastic cats while diving, just saying.

N

Me too.. Unless theire catFISH of course..

 

[The Chairman]

My point, is that people often throw gear at a training problem. Getting fins to defeat currents misses the entire point of training. A good sharpening of your underwater skills and a modest understanding of how currents work should allow you to manage these situations with the gear you have. I'm not saying that fins can't or won't make a difference, but I am saying that you should think about how to use as little energy as possible to complete your dive.

 

[danvolker]

My point, is that people often throw gear at a training problem. Getting fins to defeat currents misses the entire point of training. A good sharpening of your underwater skills and a modest understanding of how currents work should allow you to manage these situations with the gear you have. I'm not saying that fins can't or won't make a difference, but I am saying that you should think about how to use as little energy as possible to complete your dive.

As much as this is counter to how I usually discuss currents and fins, I have to agree ENTIRELY that the MOST important issue for the diver in a big current, is orienting their body correctly in the current, and gaining skill in reading the bottom like a whitewater kayaker, and knowing how to "eddy out" of the current behind structures, and how to plan "traverses" between down-current structures or even underwater sand dunes or holes....

I would actually enjoy the heck out of teaching a class like this, as it takes the joy of white water kayaking, and combines it with the best of scuba diving

 

[The Chairman]

I would actually enjoy the heck out of teaching a class like this, as it takes the joy of white water kayaking, and combines it with the best of scuba diving

It's funny, but I have over 4,000 miles in the seat of a canoe that helps me with this skill. Cave diving honed it even further, but it's not hard for anyone without these experiences to understand the concepts of currents, chutes and eddies. After you get your mind around the concept, it's just not that hard to identify the structures that provide and/or alter them to your advantage. If you are sweating underwater from working too hard, chances are you're doing it wrong.