Finally dove with DIR buddies. What a mess!

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TheAvatar once bubbled...
How can anyone Do It Right if ya can't agree what is the right "Right" to be doing?:confused:

If one follows DIR to the letter, it is very clear what is right and what is wrong. It's a non-issue as to confusion.

For those that want to follow personal preference, well, they just don't fit under the DIR umbrella, and again, it's a non-issue.
 
TheAvatar once bubbled...
How can anyone Do It Right if ya can't agree what is the right "Right" to be doing?:confused:

There is an agreed upon right way. However, some people choose not to recognize it as such.
 
DIZZY once bubbled...
Are you allowed to dive with him ? Do your rules not say that you cannot dive with someone, who is essentially, a stroke !

No insult intended diverbrian.
Though you were probably just joking, I'll answer as seriously as I can. And I would also like to offer an apology to the experienced DIR divers that post on this board; I am not as experienced, and I'm still coming to DIR with fresh eyes and committing to it on every dive. My efforts to explore and explain DIR to non-DIR divers might be incredibly annoying. Please forgive me and please tell me if they are.

So, here goes.

There are alot of divers who are unsafe divers, and there are alot of divers who it would not be safe for me to dive with because I dive DIR. There is a distinction there that is subtle but important.

DIR diving is not something that just one person can do. There is an overarching shift in orientation to the sport of diving that is based on the relationships between you and the other divers in your team. You can't dive alone, or with someone who is not diving the same way you are, and dive 'DIR'. 'DIR diving' doesn't make any sense unless you're talking about more than one DIR diver, because most of what it is to be DIR is about how you communicate with, rely on and provide redundancy and safety for other divers.

It also has to do with the standards that DIR divers hold themselves and each other to; I get (and give) direct, critical feedback from my buddies alot. To dive DIR you need to be diving with your brain on at all times. When you mess something up, your buddy lets you know about it.

Why? Because if you're diving DIR, they are your lifeline, and you are theirs. You hold each other to a very high standard of skill and awareness for that reason. It's a nice system that way, it makes you want to be a better diver for your buddy, not just for you. It also creates at least the potential for honest, straightforward, direct relationships, many opportunities for the ego to be put back in its proper place, and alot of self-awareness.

As a sidenote, GUE is not for everyone and not everyone could make it through a GUE course, not even Fundamentals. I think that just pisses some people off who know that they would have to change how they dive, and how they live, in order to be able to dive the way GUE teaches.

The question is whether it is 'safe' to dive with a non-DIR diver. Considering that your level of safety underwater is largely dependent on your buddy, it has less to do with whether that diver is 'good' or not and more to do with whether that diver has the orientation to diving that you have. If they don't dive DIR, they probably don't have the same orientation.

Alot of non-DIR diving equates 'safety' with independence, being your own redundancy. That's not a judgment; it's just a fact. But DIR divers make their buddy their redundancy, and alot of the skills and discipline of DIR diving revolves around that basic premise. That makes a huge difference in every aspect of being underwater that I think alot of other divers just don't get unless they take a Fundamentals course and start to dive DIR and see what a huge difference it makes.

DIR has its own language and different orientation to what being a buddy means. Diving DIR takes alot of practice and discipline to achieve. I haven't achieved it yet myself.

So, if I believe in and practice the DIR approach to diving, could I dive with a non-DIR diver and still dive DIR? No. Could I dive with a non-DIR diver and still be safe, according to the premises underlying DIR?

It's a question I guess I would pose to you. What do you think?

I hope that wasn't too long an explanation and that it was clear.

Margaret
 
Margaret,

1. No need to apologize. Your opinions and thoughts count as much as the next guy/gal.

2. Your posts are not annoying, and in fact are quite informativie because

3. You're a great writer.

Dive safe,

Jack
 
The Advanced Nitrox course that I took pushed buddy skills and team diving. It also pushed that if push comes to shove and your buddy has a heart attack underwater (for example), you had better have the capability to get both of you back up safely.

The major difference that I detect in reading the DIR-F reports is that IANTD lets you use the equipment that fits your Personal Preference and still gets the job done. If I were to move on to technical diving (for example), I would have to lose some of the excess gear that I now carry to support carrying a travel gas bottle and reduce drag. As I am still only certified to 130 ft. with minor decos, this is a good to time for me to evolve away from my single tank recreational rig (which I still have to use to assist in SSI classes in any case) towards my doubles for deeper cold water diving. Also, for open water diving, finning backwards and helicoptering is nice but not required. A half-way decent frog kick is important as well (ask my dive buddy on the Eber Ward about the silt that came up off the deck, he wondered why I was frog kicking, LOL.). More important is decent trim and buoyancy and even more importantly, NEVER BEING SATISFIED WITH WHERE YOU AT IN THOSE DEPARTMENTS. After watching my instructors at the shop and IANTD instructor, I definitely know that 1) I am better at this than what I was and 2) I have a loooong way to go to be happy with my skills. I am not going to be doing anything involving overhead environments with my current training. Excepting the one IANTD instructor who was there, none of the group that was in Canada with me will be doing that as well. The IANTD instructor is a cave diver.
 
Good post.

It is ok to recreationally dive (No technical or "advanced" dives) with a diver that is not DIR as long as they are reasonably safe. This person is by no means as safe as they could be but, unless they are dangerous, I say dive with them. Who knows, they might become interested in DIR after diving with you.

98% of the time I'm the only DIR diver on the boat or at the quarry...there are no other DIR divers. I have 3 choices: dive alone (bad idea), buddy with somone decent or not dive. Dive shops do not promote DIR...you are most likely to come into contact with non DIR divers the majority of the time.

I'm not opposed to doing a simple recreational dive with just about anyone who can demonstrate attention to safety along with in-water skill...I don't like to, but I will if I have to. You can still be DIR and dive with non-DIR divers on a recreational level. Any other type of diving, I'll dive with DIR guys. Safety will be compromised a bit by diving with non DIR divers but, in a recreational setting, I think it's ok if you exercise proper judgement.
 
ElectricZombie once bubbled...
98% of the time I'm the only DIR diver on the boat or at the quarry...there are no other DIR divers. I have 3 choices: dive alone (bad idea), buddy with somone decent or not dive. Dive shops do not promote DIR...you are most likely to come into contact with non DIR divers the majority of the time.

Safety will be compromised a bit by diving with non DIR divers but, in a recreational setting, I think it's ok if you exercise proper judgement.
As I understand DIR, you have violated various commandments. "Safety will be compromised a bit ...." and "Ok if you exercise proper judgement" don't sound very DIR to me. This sounds like the dreaded personal preference.
 
It's not personal preference at all.

I would rather not dive with non-DIR divers. The problem is that DIR divers are few and far between. I have never seen another DIR diver on a boat (other than a few DIR guys that I planned to dive with) and don't ever expect to around here. Based on this, I should just sell all my gear and give up diving...right? Wrong.

Diving with someone recreationally is totally different from doing a technical dive. Even some of the GUE Instructors have said the very same thing. I guess I can't go diving with any of the students I've certified because none of them decided to DIR. (Well, one is DIR) Yeah, that's going to look great...the Instructor that refuses to dive with his students...

Based on your comments, DIR-F Instructors are not DIR either because they dive with students who are only learning about DIR and are not 100% DIR yet...nonsense.
 

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