Finally dove with DIR buddies. What a mess!

[Charlie99]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Wrong.

Here's what you get when you mix a GUE instructor who cares and knows the difference with a PADI class:

The students did their OW classes in Hawaii and then did some extra open water dives.

Did their OW cert get issued by GUE or some other agency?

 

[detroit diver]

Charlie99 once bubbled...
Did their OW cert get issued by GUE or some other agency?

PADI

 

[Whirling Girl]

MikeF, good answers on all that stuff. Thanks! Going to do some research.

The only thing I would take issue with is that the other agencies teach those skills in open water classes. Not in my albeit limited experience, both in my own OW class and in the classes I have followed since then that weren't taught by GUE instructors or DIR divers. And most divers aren't taught anything close to the awareness, control and buddy skills that they could be given, which I think is, well, scary.

Many of the divers I have encountered in the water at some of my favorite dive sites are not using these techniques either, which has given me and my buddies some good opportunities to practice our 'what to do in a complete silt out' skills.

I base alot of what I am currently thinking on what I see in the purely recreational diving scene. People who go on to tech and cave and serious wreck penetration have to know alot more, and are usually going to develop stronger skills to meet the challenges of harder dives.

Thanks again for your courteous reply!

Margaret

 

[mgri]

Is it safe to say that DIRF has created an outlet for skills at the tech level to finally trickling down to the rec level?

Come to think of it, this board has probably done a better job of it in my case.

It would have been a long time before I ever heard of DIR, frog kicks, trim, etc. if it wasn't for this board.

Thanks to UP, Mike Ferrara, all the regulators, seajay and raven (sounds like a dynamic duo),Bruanbehrens, MHK and all the DIR divers, all the Tasmanian devils,(why are there so many?), charlie99 and all the other knowledgeable posters I can't think of off the top of my head, for making me a smarter, safer, and hopefully more skillful diver

I know blatant suck up post but these guys and gals seem to always have to deal with new divers (like me) who think they already have all the answers.

 

[Whirling Girl]

mgri once bubbled...
Is it safe to say that DIRF has created an outlet for skills at the tech level to finally trickling down to the rec level?

Yes, I think that's true. Thank you for saying that so clearly.

And welcome to the puppy pen.

Margaret

 

[MikeFerrara]

detroit diver once bubbled...
NSS, and IANTD are advanced level courses. Other than the rare instructor that knows the difference (like MikeFerrara), and then teaches it, there is NO OW agency that teaches these fundamental skills in any depth to their students.

Your Advanced Nitorx Instructor MUST know these skills to do the cave diving that he does. He KNOWS why they are so important. You are lucky enough to have the benefit of his wisdom. You're right, you don't have to be GUE/DIR to push these skills. It's just that, with the few exceptions, no one does.

In fact, if you take a DIR Fundamentals class, the instructor will tell you that what they are teaching in terms of skills is in the first 4 pages of the PADI OW student manual! It's glossed over so badly that they have made an industry (albeit small) of correcting this oversight (I'm not sure "oversight" is the proper term, as I think it's deliberate).

All true.

 

[detroit diver]

mgri once bubbled...
Is it safe to say that DIRF has created an outlet for skills at the tech level to finally trickling down to the rec level?

........

Just as a little background:

The DIR Fundamentals class was created because the instructors were gettting students in the Tech1 and Cave 1 classes that could not do even the most basic of skills. GUE decided that it was a waste of time and money (for both the student and instructor) to have to take part of these classes and teach basic fundamental skills before teaching the class that the student had paid for. In some cases, the student never got the Tech or Cave training because they could not get past the basic skills.

Thus was born the DIR Fundamentals class. And it's success is now forcing other agencies to look at improving their training. Impressive on what an agency with 35 instructors can do to influence this business, isn't it? If you show people that there is a better way-and explain why in detal- some will demand it from their instructors and ask why they were not taught this way in the first place.

 

[MikeFerrara]

detroit diver once bubbled...


And it's success is now forcing other agencies to look at improving their training. Impressive on what an agency with 35 instructors can do to influence this business, isn't it?

What agencies are looking at improving their training? I haven't noticed an improvement, at least not on an agency level.

I have noticed, though, that some of the instructors that frequent SB are going off and trying different training methods and reporting success. Certainly GUE has been an influence but I don't see any of the agencies getting it.

 

[detroit diver]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


What agencies are looking at improving their training? I haven't noticed an improvement, at least not on an agency level.

I have noticed, though, that some of the instructors that frequent SB are going off and trying different training methods and reporting success. Certainly GUE has been an influence but I don't see any of the agencies getting it.

I don't have my old posts on this computer, but I think it was NAUI that was offering what they call a "DIR" class. I might be wrong on the agency, but I'll try to get the info later.

 

[TCDiver1]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Wrong.

Whats wrong? The point is, GUE currently has no active OW certification program and would have no students to teach if it wasn't for the agencies that do. I have said this before, i have nothing against GUE and what they are attempting to do with the industry but teaching divers who are already certifed is not the same thing as teaching someone who has never taken an OW course.
Requiring every new divers to have passing grade, DIRF type skills, before they get their OW cert., is a great dream but i doubt it will ever be mainstream reality for the industry. You have an industry that has been in a slump for years and your going to set requirements that will get less people involved? Therefore producing less revenue for the industry? It's nice to dream folks but i don't see it.
Lets see how it goes for GUE if and when they do put out a open water course. Personally, i have my doubts it will ever happen and if it does happen, that it will ever last.

Here's what you get when you mix a GUE instructor who cares and knows the difference with a PADI class:

http://scubaguys.com/Photogallerypage.htm

then click on "pics from classes"

Most don't know the difference due to the minimal entrance requirements for instructing. Ahhh, now you've got me going on another subject....

Ah yes, here's where we go after "instructors other than GUE" instructors. DD, you sound like you have first hand experience on what it takes to teach scuba. What agency do you teach for?