It's easy to explain. Even if you start then on the bottom (which from experience I don't think is the best way) you can still get them off the bottom eventually. As long as you teach the skills and provide enough time for those skills to be practiced wou'll end up with a good diver. There's more than one way to do everything.
Finally dove with DIR buddies. What a mess!
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It's easy to explain. Even if you start then on the bottom (which from experience I don't think is the best way) you can still get them off the bottom eventually. As long as you teach the skills and provide enough time for those skills to be practiced wou'll end up with a good diver. There's more than one way to do everything.
Scrappy Doo
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Downtime you are correct. Tim O'Leary and JJ are actually very good friends. Being an old time NAUI guy there was a PowerPoint presentation that NAUI tech did that the last slide said "Remember if you are going to do something, DO IT RIGHT". So GUE not only adopted NAUI tech it took a slogan right off of their PowerPoint and used it for to their benefit.
There is an unwritten rule that NAUI Tech and GUE are to "get along" as Tim O'Leary will not have it any other way. Most all of the GUE instructors have a NAUI background and it is not uncommon for each agency to speak at one anothers forums. Basically NAUI helped make GUE what it is or will become, but you don't hear NAUI Tech "beating its chest".
Scrappy.....
Cool story thanks. It lends some credability to what I was told.
PhotoTJ
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C'mon, you've got to crawl before you can penetrate the Doria! (Mild metaphor mixing.) Taking a class through BASIC skills? And you want them to have perfect buoyancy?
Unreasonable expectation, and you'll kill off a lot of business.
IMO
detroit diver
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It's only unreasonable when your standards are on the floor to start out with.
PhotoTJ
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Well, how many students will drop if you hold them to a DIR standard for an OW class, when most will dive for a week per year or less? For those of us who dive 200+ a year, OK, but our obsession is subsidized by the vacation diver. Drive him away and what happens?
If you want to dive with military precision, join the military. But remember most divers just want to have fun, not insert a strike team into France.
detroit diver
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This is all about fun. And learning to dive properly.
Let me ask your question a little differently.
How many reefs would be saved by teaching the proper methods in the first place, rather than shoveling thru volume to pad the pocketbook?
No one is subsidizing my diving. I try to get to areas where the cattle boats don't go. Then I can see the environment in the manner that it should be seen-without broken corals and everything tramped to death.
This has nothing to do with military precision. It has to do with BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL SKILLS. Nothing more, nothing less. This isn't about tech diving. Period.
It's all about fun. Is there anything wrong with wanting to be the best you can be? Or do we accept mediocrity (or worse) because it's cheap and easy? How difficult would it be for the training agencies to demand that the instructors have the proper skills before becoming instructors, and then requiring them to teach these skills? This business has everything to do with shoving as many people thru the till as possible in the least amount of time.
PhotoTJ
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...with some of what you are saying. The 1 year wonders are a major mistake. (instructors who go ow-aow-rescue-dm-instructor in what amounts to one long class.) You should have to have 100 dives before dm, and 300 for instructor.
IMHO
When I say subsidize, I mean the fact that most dive costs are driven down by volume of divers, whether travel, equipment, etc. I don't want to accept mediocrity, but you have to walk a fine line between demanding excellent skills, and scaring off potential students.
If I wanted to put a finger on the problem, I'd say it's the 'instant instructors'. You need both knowledge and wisdom to teach. And you can only get one of them through experience. So, I suppose the agencies should be a little more self-policing.
Let me see whether I understand your statement correctly...
I do not disagree with what you have stated regarding what OUGHT to be: how programs should be structured, the level of proficiency that Basic OW students should demonstrate, and more certainly that level of performance and experience which should be demanded of instructors.
On a personal level, I observed both of my teenagers going through NAUI OW certification courses during the past 20 months and was dismayed at what was left out of the instruction.
That being said, with the way things ARE today - instead of what they ought to be - so far as I know Basic OW criteria for PADI and NAUI (don't know about YMCA) only requires four dives. The fifth is optional. I could be mistaken.
But my point is that perfect, nearly effortless bouyancy and trim mastery - IMHO - requires more than four dives to attain. I would expect a competent instructor to demonstrate those skills, describe how to attain the skills, and emphasize the importance of working toward those skills.
I would not expect a student, after four dives, to exhibit complete mastery of those skills.
They should be able to comprehend what is needed, and how to get there. And, they should be able to describe why bouyancy and trim skills are important. But....I don't agree that basic OW students should be able to demonstrate effortless mastery after four OW dives.
FWIW.
Doc
I do not disagree with what you have stated regarding what OUGHT to be: how programs should be structured, the level of proficiency that Basic OW students should demonstrate, and more certainly that level of performance and experience which should be demanded of instructors.
On a personal level, I observed both of my teenagers going through NAUI OW certification courses during the past 20 months and was dismayed at what was left out of the instruction.
That being said, with the way things ARE today - instead of what they ought to be - so far as I know Basic OW criteria for PADI and NAUI (don't know about YMCA) only requires four dives. The fifth is optional. I could be mistaken.
But my point is that perfect, nearly effortless bouyancy and trim mastery - IMHO - requires more than four dives to attain. I would expect a competent instructor to demonstrate those skills, describe how to attain the skills, and emphasize the importance of working toward those skills.
I would not expect a student, after four dives, to exhibit complete mastery of those skills.
They should be able to comprehend what is needed, and how to get there. And, they should be able to describe why bouyancy and trim skills are important. But....I don't agree that basic OW students should be able to demonstrate effortless mastery after four OW dives.
FWIW.
Doc
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