Finally dove with DIR buddies. What a mess!

[PhotoTJ]

The problem with this train of thought is that we are the ones thinking it! We have the quirk that makes us want to be amphibians, most don't! Think back in your life, how many games, hobbies, sports and activities did you try that you no longer care about! Diving is what hooked you, and made you want to get better at it. The people who are doing it half-a$$ed are not going to stay with the adventure, and no amount of preaching is going to make them want to get any better than 'good enough for the one weekend a year.'

Only if they understand the reason for the higher standard. And only if they care to. Most people who dabble in a hobby don't take it to the extremes that divers do.

You have to have a love of adventure, and a love of gadgits. While a lot of new divers love gadgits, and most think that they love adventure, the reality is that they just want to look at the pretty fish, tell a story at the office to make them sound cool, or in a bar, thinking it may help their chances.

Hey, I'm rambling, it's 4:30 am. :mean:

Dive safe!

 

[MikeFerrara]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...


C'mon, you've got to crawl before you can penetrate the Doria! (Mild metaphor mixing.) Taking a class through BASIC skills? And you want them to have perfect buoyancy?

Unreasonable expectation, and you'll kill off a lot of business.

IMO

First off the post you quoted didn't talk about buoyancy control at all. It talked about students with dangling alternates and guages. Why are you apposed to streamlined equipment?

IAs far as buoyancy control, I don't expect or require them to be perfect but what's so fun about turning the quarry into one giant silt out. LOL

How often they're going to dive isn't my concern. My concern is seeing to it that at the moment they become certified they are competant and confident in the skill set required of an OW diver.

My student do crawl first but they do it in the pool. When we get to OW they are diving. In OW they have an easy fun time. As long as we can avoid the other classes they even get to see something other than clouds of mud.

 

[MikeFerrara]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...


When I say subsidize, I mean the fact that most dive costs are driven down by volume of divers, whether travel, equipment, etc. I don't want to accept mediocrity, but you have to walk a fine line between demanding excellent skills, and scaring off potential students.

Here's where you're wrong. If some one wants to sit or walk on the bottom to see the pretty fish, while relying on the DM to get them gack to the boat, there are plenty of instructors who will get them there. I try to teach diving so if that's not what a student wants they can go somplace else.

If I wanted to put a finger on the problem, I'd say it's the 'instant instructors'. You need both knowledge and wisdom to teach. And you can only get one of them through experience. So, I suppose the agencies should be a little more self-policing.

There are more problems than we can list here but the bottom line is numbers. The industry needs lots of OW students to buy the equipment and to do that they need lots of instructors (and cheap ones at that). You're right not every one really wants to learn to dive but we can't let that stop us from selling them a card, an equipment package and a spot on the resort boat can we.

 

[MikeFerrara]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...


Well, how many students will drop if you hold them to a DIR standard for an OW class, when most will dive for a week per year or less? For those of us who dive 200+ a year, OK, but our obsession is subsidized by the vacation diver. Drive him away and what happens?

If you want to dive with military precision, join the military. But remember most divers just want to have fun, not insert a strike team into France.

There's nothing DIR or military about anything I do. However if I give a student a card that says they can dive, they can.

I can't help it if most cards only mean that you can sit on the bottom without drowning.

 

[MikeFerrara]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
The problem with this train of thought is that we are the ones thinking it! We have the quirk that makes us want to be amphibians, most don't! Think back in your life, how many games, hobbies, sports and activities did you try that you no longer care about! Diving is what hooked you, and made you want to get better at it. The people who are doing it half-a$$ed are not going to stay with the adventure, and no amount of preaching is going to make them want to get any better than 'good enough for the one weekend a year.'

Only if they understand the reason for the higher standard. And only if they care to. Most people who dabble in a hobby don't take it to the extremes that divers do.

You have to have a love of adventure, and a love of gadgits. While a lot of new divers love gadgits, and most think that they love adventure, the reality is that they just want to look at the pretty fish, tell a story at the office to make them sound cool, or in a bar, thinking it may help their chances.

Hey, I'm rambling, it's 4:30 am. :mean:

Dive safe!

Again you're correct but these aren't the student who I'll spend my time with. I'm not interested in that kind of diving (if you can call it that) and they likely won't be doing it with my name and instructor number on their card if I can help it.

 

[PhotoTJ]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

However if I give a student a card that says they can dive, they can.

I agree with you, and Ill wager you're a great instructor. I'm just trying to look at all sides if the situation. We all are very passionate about diving, and we all have our pet peeves. And they depend on where and how we dive, it seems.

I have never been in a silt out, because I've never dove in a quarry or done a wreck penitration. However, it seems like a lot of divers on the board do predominatly that kind of diving, and I can see how that would drive you batsh*t.

I am mostly a hunter. (I like my seafood REALLY fresh!)

My pet peeve is the 1 year wonders, and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a dozen of 'em out here. And their students are less than impressive. Same problem.

 

[Whirling Girl]

MikeF, I wish there were more instructors like you.

TJ, how much experience should a diver have before they become an instructor?

I don't disagree with your pet peeve (and my favorite pet peeve, by the way, is silt), I am just asking. If I continue to love diving so much I will want to be an instructor too, because I teach everything else that I love, but I don't want to rush into it.

And I LOVED THAT MOVIE, by the way. Great flick to go see with a bunch of divers, arrrgggh.

Margaret

 

[PhotoTJ]

Whirling Girl, I think a minimum of one year, and at least 300 dives when you start the course. Prior to those plateaus, I don't think a diver, even a great one, has the experience necessary. Stick with Divemastering till you hit those two milestones, and you will have had enough curve balls thrown at you to deal with what students are going to throw at you.

 

[ElectricZombie]

I kind of agree with the "Instant Instructor" arguement.

I think we should evaluate an individuals skills and abilities individually before allowing them to do an ITC. I've seen divers with 4,000 dives who looked 10X worse than any of my worst OW students. I've also seen divers with 50 dives who will make 98% of Instructors look pathetic. Everyone is different and it really boils down to how hard you practice. So, I don't really think that we need to set such a high minumum # of dives required for ITC students.

One of the other major problems is that the organizations are not teaching their Instructors even basic skills. An Instructor who has not perfected basic skills will turn out poor students. Most of these Instructors do not think they are doing anything wrong because they have never learned the correct way to begin with. It is WAY to easy to get an Instructor card. We need to raise standards for Instructors and students.

I just got back from the quarry a few minutes ago. If I had a dollar for every Instructor I saw today who kicked up as much silt as their worst student, today's diving would have been free. I did not see anyone who looked remotely decent in the water (except my buddy)...and that is really sad.

 

[PhotoTJ]

Have a skills evaluation that you must pass before you are allowed to take the ITC. A four instructor panel, or something along those lines.