Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef
- Thread starter DandyDon
- Start date
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You're a little mixed up, or I am. I believe he started a trimix course on that date. I doubt that's a one day class, but I don't know since I haven't done trimix myself. Also I believe he was at 225' rather than 300. He was still with the instructor on this dive, although I don't think it's been released weather or not this was a training dive.
packrat12
Contributor
I wanted to comment on the dive boat operator. I have had nothing but great experiences with the captains and crews of Horizon divers. I have done numerous technical dives from the Pisces (and the CheecaView) and have always found them to be very professional, attentive and responsive. The Pisces can be a small boat and cramp when a bunch of technical gear is on it. Depending on what happened I can see a crew of 2 being too distracted as there is not much room to 'maneuver' on this boat and simple things like fetching O2 or helping a distressed diver can be problematic. As in technical diving, 1 issue should not be a problem, 2 issues can be deadly. Without knowing the timeline of events and how fast they transpired, it is my hope that they are clear of any direct cause other then being the taxi. I like diving with them, and will dive easily with them the next time I am in the Keys.
Just going to say that if your comments are correct than the operation by law should have addressed the very real possibility that handling the issues like you said isn't problematic.
packrat12
Contributor
Chris,
The issue amounts to resources. With 1 heavy diver (tech) having issues, it can take 2 people to deal with them. These boats really only have the captain and deckhand to do anything. Unfortunately I can see eyes off of the diver in the water because it would take 2 to deal with an emergency. Did that diver on the deck pass out, have a severe DCS/DCI incident, heart attack, etc. I would expect all concern for a moment to be on that diver until their status is better understood. Getting O2, getting the diver secure, getting their gear secure so as not to be a greater danger, etc. The timeline of how fast Rob disappeared would have a bearing on this especially if he seemed ok. Were others on the deck helping or was everyone in the water can also have impact.
My basis for commenting on the operator is that there are few that I have seen as well organized as them, and because I have dove with them on numerous occasions at the technical level, I find that this organization is consistent. I also know as a technical diver that I am prepared to handle 1 serious issue without impact. I may not be able to handle 2 issues. If both of these divers had issues at the same time, that is quite a load on the crew.
The issue amounts to resources. With 1 heavy diver (tech) having issues, it can take 2 people to deal with them. These boats really only have the captain and deckhand to do anything. Unfortunately I can see eyes off of the diver in the water because it would take 2 to deal with an emergency. Did that diver on the deck pass out, have a severe DCS/DCI incident, heart attack, etc. I would expect all concern for a moment to be on that diver until their status is better understood. Getting O2, getting the diver secure, getting their gear secure so as not to be a greater danger, etc. The timeline of how fast Rob disappeared would have a bearing on this especially if he seemed ok. Were others on the deck helping or was everyone in the water can also have impact.
My basis for commenting on the operator is that there are few that I have seen as well organized as them, and because I have dove with them on numerous occasions at the technical level, I find that this organization is consistent. I also know as a technical diver that I am prepared to handle 1 serious issue without impact. I may not be able to handle 2 issues. If both of these divers had issues at the same time, that is quite a load on the crew.
St John the Diver
Contributor
Exactly.
It all comes down to what is reasonable. A bost taking 30 Divers out with a crew of three can't possibly be expected to deal with 30 simultaneous emergencies. If you have ever tried to get an unconscious Reabreather Diver into a boat you know how difficult it is. If you haven't, you have no idea how hard it is.
One common technique that seems to of been missed here is hanging a 20 foot Umbilical below the boat with two open circuit regulators in a quick disconnect hose on it. That allows distressed Diver access to oxygen, and allows a rebreather diver with lost oxygen to plug a quick disconnect Into his counterlung. I guess we just take things more seriously here than they do there.
This theory has flaws. It sounds more and more like hypercapnia to me. Just as deadly and amazingly disorienting and confusing.
actually folks it's going to come down on what the Coast Guard feels in reasonable, not the crew,not the divers, not us on the internet.
The Coast Guard is going to be conservative in that approach. They like to see SOP, crew training and drills for expected emergencies.
Running a dive boat, it is foreseeable and expected that you will have a buddy pair of divers in distress. If you don't have the manpower aboard to handle such an event, then you are doing it wrong.
As somebody who has spent a few minutes as crew on a dive boat, I can say with absolute certainty that expecting there to be more than one diver in distress in an emergency is a given. having a plan to deal with it, and practicing it is not just prudent, it's required. If all eyes and attention is only on the single diver in the most visible distress, you WILL have a second problem or more to deal with, not you may, you WILL.
St John, I have given CPR to a rebreather diver(it worked btw) on the deck post recovery on one, I am somewhat familiar with the efforts required to get one on the boat.
The facts of running a dive boat are that when you have a emergency with a diver, you have a problem with ALL the divers in the water, in particular the buddy who may also be in distress. yes it get's hectic, but it's all expected. Thus you have SOP and drills so the crew all know what responsibilities they will have. There is always a certain degree of adjusting to each situation, however with a robust sop, training and drilling it's amazing how pear shaped the world can get and the SOP, training and drilling allow the situation to be managed.
The Coast Guard is going to be conservative in that approach. They like to see SOP, crew training and drills for expected emergencies.
Running a dive boat, it is foreseeable and expected that you will have a buddy pair of divers in distress. If you don't have the manpower aboard to handle such an event, then you are doing it wrong.
As somebody who has spent a few minutes as crew on a dive boat, I can say with absolute certainty that expecting there to be more than one diver in distress in an emergency is a given. having a plan to deal with it, and practicing it is not just prudent, it's required. If all eyes and attention is only on the single diver in the most visible distress, you WILL have a second problem or more to deal with, not you may, you WILL.
St John, I have given CPR to a rebreather diver(it worked btw) on the deck post recovery on one, I am somewhat familiar with the efforts required to get one on the boat.
The facts of running a dive boat are that when you have a emergency with a diver, you have a problem with ALL the divers in the water, in particular the buddy who may also be in distress. yes it get's hectic, but it's all expected. Thus you have SOP and drills so the crew all know what responsibilities they will have. There is always a certain degree of adjusting to each situation, however with a robust sop, training and drilling it's amazing how pear shaped the world can get and the SOP, training and drilling allow the situation to be managed.
You keep banging on about his hypoxia scenario but can you please explain how 2 rebreather divers find themselves with no O2 and no bailout and nothing to breathe except 10/50 dil. This seems like a very far fetched scenario.
Remember that a rebreather diver has as much as 1.3ata in the loop which if you popped to the surface from 70m you would still have 0.16 atm O2 and hypoxia would be the least of your worries.. I just don't see what chain of events could lead to hypoxia without a whole laundry list of screw ups which I doubt given Peter's experience is likely.
easy, they did two biggish dives earlier in the day, they wanted to get one more shot of something, they look at their pressures and think "the machines are super good on gas, that should do it" and enter the wtaer for a "quick" get the shot dive..that takes longer than they anticipated, during the dive, the run out of oxygen because they didn't have full oxygen when they jumped in...because complacency, excitement to get the shot, rushing, stupidity..whatever.
So, out of oxygen, they are fin with their 10/50 dil until after the complete a longer than anticipated deco and once they start up from deco get hypoxic. They hit the roof conscious, first diver needs assistance getting aboard where he passes out, all attention on him, diver in water passes out, unit fills with wa wa and sinks like stone, found 300 ft from wreck.
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