Filling a 6 cu pony tank- can I use an Al80

[MC]

This may fall under the "newbee" section, but could not find an answer via a search.

I picked up my brand new 6cu pony tanks yesterday. But they were not filled.
Got them home realized they had 0 air in them . Does that mean I have to get them re-VIP? If I recall, brand new tanks (this one was manufactured in July 2010 do not need VIP for the first year. (I know I've had to re-vip old tanks that were bleed to 0 air in the past. Really do not want to get into a shouting match between the supplier

Also, reading that some people use their larger tanks to fill their ponys (much like a spare air)? How do I do that?

We went with the 6cu tanks (rather than 13's) as we only use these for when we are doing shallow dives or with a Hookah device as well as use them for when we have to get under the boat or in the water for some quick issues.

edit-
Since I have 2 pony set ups with regulators, wondering if I can hook one regulator up to the AL80, hook the other to one of the pony tanks, connect each of the the 1 stage HP ports together, then open them up and bleed them? Thought I read that is one way to do it, but kind of confused as to if I need to disassembne the 1st stages in some capacity?

Read the "whip" threads as well. maybe using the 1st stages as whips?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

It's easily done with a transfill whip - made for that purpose - but they are not cheap.

Connecting two HP ports together would work but will take a long time due to the really small orifices in HP ports and would require a special hose with a 7/16" hp port fitting on both ends.

Same with connecting two first stage hoses - the fill rate woudl be faster, but a special adapter or hose would be needed.

If they are 200 bar DIN/K valvres you can remove the K valve inserts, press fit in a suitable piece of plastic hose from the hard ware store into the DIN opening on each tank and "transfill" maybe 40 psi of gas from one tank to the other - but open the valve on the full tank very slowly as the jury rigged hose will not tolerate much pressure before popping loose.

It's not a lot of gas but perhaps enough to avoid a VIP at the shop you want to to fill them.

On the other hand if they do not already have current VIP stickers denoting a VIP by a repuable shop, you'll need a new VIP anyway - and it would be far cheaper than most of the ways to transfill gas from one tank to another. But if you want to take the overly complex rube goldbergesque / wiley coyote approach, then knock yourself out.

 

[Crush]

It's easily done with a transfill whip - made for that purpose - but they are not cheap.

They are not that expensive - see here: Tank to Tank Equalizer With Gauge reviews and discounts, IST

Mention that you are a scubaboard member and you will get 10% off.

 

[spectrum]

MC

First off there is no free lunch on the year1 VIP. Some cylinders actually have come from the factory with factory visuals but since that's usually on a cylinder without holding pressure they aren't worth the paper or plastic they are printed on and most shops don't recognize them.

You can blow some air in there to show a not empty state but lacking an honored VIP it's probably still a dead end.

The next alternatives to bypass normal channels and take things into your own hands with a transfill whip. This will let you skim the cream off a fill or 2 and you can do your own fills. The whip is nice to own but for the hassles of denting a few air fills to get the 6 CF happy you will need to decide. Remember that this is all about pressure so if your have AL-80s filled to 3000, the end point will be a little less when shared. With 6 CF it won't be far off on a top-off. If you have some HP cylinders in the gear locker you're golden.

Finally you need to decide if you need the ability to get a non nonsense shop fill of these. If so just get the darned stickers. I hope the deal was worth it. This an area where buy local can shine.

Pete

Pete

 

[Hatul]

Just spend a few bucks and get it vissed and filled and you won't have to worry about this problem.

Adam

 

[Rainer]

Just place the valves of the 6 and 80 next to each other. Open them simultaneously. When you've moved enough over from the 80 to the 6, close both quickly.

 

[redacted]

Unless you are dealing with a shop that does a discounted or free fill on a small pony, you really should get your own fill capability as such a small pony may need quite frequent topping off. I have my own equalizer hose and it makes life easy for filling my pony and for balancing other tanks. In the ling run, it is about $100 well spent. My pony never requires a VIP sticker and has even gone for a few years out of hydro.

It is also possible to find an adapter that will allow 2 1st stages to be connected HP port to HP port and do a slow transfer fill. This is better for moving enough gas to avoid an inspection just because you drained a tank but it can also be made to work for filling a pony. Best solution is the equalizer hose.

 

[MC]

got them vip'd and filled, will proably go with the equalizer hose as awap states- just makes it easy for refilling

edit-
The reason the pony tanks did not have a vip sticker is the store I got them from forgot to attach the vip and fill the tanks. The tanks were part of a larger order of stuff and really did not want to have to return to the store later to argue over a vip/fill so I just the tanks to complete the order.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I have a 6 cu-ft tank. You really NEED both. A VIP and a transfill whip. The transfill whip will allow you to top off a pony, while on the boat between dives. This capability can be extremely important in certain situations AND you absolutely MUST keep that little 6 cuft bottle FILLED to get much use (safety out of it).

I have one, I get it topped off EVERY time I get my primary tanks filled, since they will leak a few hundred pounds when left on over a period of maybe 1.5 hrs of two dives, plus each time you use the pony, you really should check to see it works by breathing out of it. Essentially, you WILL need to top off the 6 frequently.

If the dive shop is charging you to top off a 6 when you are getting other tanks filled, then you really need to find a new dive shop. Just buy the damn sticker and if they are "normal" things will go smoothly. It is to the shop's best interest that their customers are "happy"; throwing out free pony top off's is a prety cheap way to do that.

 

[halocline]

I have one, I get it topped off EVERY time I get my primary tanks filled, since they will leak a few hundred pounds when left on over a period of maybe 1.5 hrs of two dives,

Just out of curiosity, why don't you fix the leak? Who wants a leaking pony...

Getting back to the transfill, as I said Couv gave me the fitting to connect two first stages with a HP hose. Send him a PM, he probably won't see it until tomorrow, but he'll tell you what fitting it is exactly. It works great, a little slow but who cares.

If I was filling bigger tanks I'd get the whip, but for this the HP hose will work fine. You need to leave one 2nd stage attached to one of the 1st stages to bleed off the pressure once you're finished. You'll also need a couple of larger tanks to get a true 3000 PSI. If I'm thinking about it correctly, the 1st AL80 (at 3000 PSI) will equalize at around 2765, leaving you around 5.5 cft in the pony. The 2nd one will get it within a hair of 6cft.

If I'm thinking about it wrong, someone will certainly correct me!