Fat AND smoking cigarettes???

[diver 85]

Am I the only one who hates to see this??? ...and what if this person turns out to be your dive buddy?

we all have to go sometimes.........@ what age do you want to die, 184 years old??----won't happen fellow???.......GEAUX TIGERS......

 

[MikeFerrara]

With diving we know smoking can (Note: I did not say "will" or "does") increase the risk of DCS.

We don't know any such thing. Can you site a reference? I think what we know is that some of the long term health effects that can be caused by smoking can be a contraindication to diving. Smoking is bad for your long term health but I'm unaware of any evidence that it's an immediate danger on a dive prior to the onset of those long term effects.

Poor buoyancy control can sure get you bent (ir worse) though...and this is a right here and now, in your face, sort of danger.

 

[StevenN]

Here's a quote from an article in Dive Training Magazine.
Alcohol, Nicotine & Divers
Most of the article is about the effects of alcohol so you have to scroll down. This quote is the second to the last paragraph.
"In terms of how smoking affects decompression sickness, no one really knows for sure. But most DCS susceptibility factors do involve changes in circulatory dynamics, and smoking has a definite effect on circulation. So, a logical but unproved conclusion is that smoking might increase the risk of bends."

 

[Rick Inman]

I'd say that most of you would be better off seeing to your own skills before worrying about the next guys weight or habits. Lousy dive skills are what can make diving dangerous.

Perfect! Thanks Mike, well said.

However, you're messing up their fun, so my guess is that this advice will be ignored.

 

[amitsi]

I think your issue is unhealthy divers!...where most will agree they don't want to buddy up with unhealthy divers...I don't even want to buddy up with healthy divers with bravado and lack of brains!

...and yes people who smoke on the boat and then throw ciggs in the ocean friggin piss me off!

 

[MikeFerrara]

Dive training?

The Nicotine Fit
There’s no need here to relate the dangers of smoking. Only historical tradition, and a strong lobby, would allow the legal sale of a product that killed one-third of the people who used it. Clearly, if its effects were immediate rather than long-term, the sale of tobacco would be as illegal as heroin, and tobacco executives would be the bunkmates of imprisoned cocaine dealers. But this discussion is about diving, so what additional risks face divers?

Lets start the piece with a political statement. ok?

Some of the effects of smoking on divers are, like most other consequences, chronic — the result from long-term use. Various chemicals — primarily tar — from inhaled smoke cause chronic irritation of the bronchi, resulting in chronic bronchitis. The tar also destroys tiny hairlike structures called cilia that line much of the respiratory tract. Cilia are important because they conduct mucus from the lungs up and out of the airway. When they no longer function, the effect is retention of mucus and partial clogging of the airway, causing the classic symptom of “smoker’s cough.” But there’s a far greater effect on divers than an irritating cough.
Various poisons in the smoke also eventually destroy alveolar walls, which produces cavities in the lungs. The result of this process, excluding death, is a condition called emphysema. This form of emphysema, however, is unrelated to the disorder divers get from lung overexpansion injury. But noted diving medical authority Dr. Ernest Campbell said “Obstruction in the terminal airways and the emphysema that’s caused can — and does — produce air-filled dilations that can markedly increase your chances of pulmonary barotrauma and arterial gas embolism.”
Perhaps the most significant effect of smoking occurs long before any sign of emphysema, and it involves the restriction of air flow in the lungs. Smoking causes mucus retention and reduced alveolar flexibility that can easily cause air trapping deep within the lungs. Or, as Campbell puts it, “Smoking also causes an increase in bronchial mucous production with a concomitant paralysis of the cilia. Mucous plugs then become dangerous to the diver, setting the stage for air-filled sacs that lead to rupture upon ascent.” The result could be, and has been, pulmonary barotrauma in smoking divers who were breathing normally. So, assurance of safety from the first rule of scuba diving — always breathe normally — doesn’t necessarily apply to smokers.
Some of the chemicals in inhaled smoke do not remain in the lungs, but pass into the bloodstream. Their effect is to cause spasm and otherwise damage the walls of blood vessels. Damage is noted particularly in vessels supplying the heart, and thus is one of the reasons smokers are so prone to heart attacks. Other effects include stroke and various forms of peripheral circulatory disorders.

the long term effects that I mentioned above.

Of course, all this happens to people regardless of whether they dive. But for divers, there’s still more to be concerned about. Smoking just before diving results in reduced tissue oxygenation because the carbon monoxide (CO) in the smoke binds with hemoglobin 220-290 times more readily than oxygen does. The result is that a diver must work harder simply to maintain a normal level of activity. In other words, when someone smokes, they intentionally reduce their body’s ability to process oxygen. And just before entering the water seems an odd time for a diver to willingly lessen his ability to function at a peak level.
Again, Campbell puts the issue into perspective. “The effects of partial pressure on CO concentration in inhaled cigarette smoke would be the same as if the CO had come from some other source, such as the atmosphere or from oil-lubricated compressors.” He also relates the details, which are pretty startling. Acceptable CO level for diving is 10 ppm (parts per million) by volume (0.001 percent). A mere 10 percent to 20 percent increase yields a mild frontal headache, and just a 20 percent to 30 percent increase gives a throbbing headache associated with nausea. This is not a condition conducive to diving. Coma, convulsions and even death can occur with a CO increase of 50 percent to 80 percent beyond the maximum.

They don't seem to mention the key difference between breathing Co at the surface and at depth (as happens with a contaminated air supply at depth). The difference is the ambient pressure. To compare the CO inhaled when smoking to the effects of a broken compressor without pointing out the difference seems disingenuous at best. You also breath some CO in traffic, sitting by a camp fire, burning leaves or when that boat ehaust blows across the stern.

In terms of how smoking affects decompression sickness, no one really knows for sure. But most DCS susceptibility factors do involve changes in circulatory dynamics, and smoking has a definite effect on circulation. So, a logical but unproved conclusion is that smoking might increase the risk of bends.

No data? I thought not.

The failure of the 18th Amendment proved how likely it is that we’ll ever put a stop to alcohol use. Smoking is perhaps an even greater challenge because its active agent — nicotine — is one of the most addictive substances ever discovered. Yet what sets us apart from other animals is our capacity to learn, and change our behavior when we know something could hurt us. Mixing diving with either alcohol or nicotine is a recipe for disaster, but if you still insist on rolling the dice, at least do so with your eyes fully open.

Is dive training pushing prohibition? LOL

In this country we value the freedon to do as we please. That's why we faught the revolution and wrote our own constitution. Even diving is less regulated here than in many places because of it. If the government is allowed to go into the business of seeing to your health and safety against your wishes, all you divers out there with lousy buoyancy control will certainly NOT be allowed to dive...for your own good of course.

Smoking is bad for you. Whether or not you do it is your business...until we finish becoming a nanny-state and completely tromp to Constitution into the ground. My work is bad for me on a good day and downright dangerous on a not so good day. So?

Dive training should take a few moments to look at the diving pictures they publish and carefully read their articles for content. When it comes to diving, they'll almost as clueless as SD magazine.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Simple fact is that since I quit almost 7 yrs ago I can't stand the smell of it around me. I won't ride in a car with a smoker as it burns my eyes up, clothes stink, and the smell of the ash tray would soon be mixed with the smell of my puke. That some people think they are better off smoking is no business of mine. I just choose not to be around them especially diving. So far all the dive boats I've been on do not allow it anyway. I never though I would be so sensitive to it but I can smell someone smoking in the car infront of me if it's warm and the windows are down. In which case mine go up as I don't want that smell in my car. As far as those who don't care about others and light up whenever and wherever that's fine. Just hope I have not had beans the night before. If you can smoke I can fart. I'm hoping that my state will soon pass a law like Ohio and MD where smoking in restaurants is not permitted at all. Some are like that near me but many still have smoking sections and frankly they do not work.

 

[Ana]

I'd say that most of you would be better off seeing to your own skills before worrying about the next guys weight or habits. Lousy dive skills are what can make diving dangerous. In the mean time, of course, dive with who you want.

you are kidding right?

We know that being fat and smoke is not healthy and we all know better than being tolerant, don't you know that tolerance is what allows them to continue on their road to perdition.

And right there in the same paragraph you tell us to dive with who we want?
you obviously were not thinking when you wrote that.

We don't say anything while in the boat, we don't even tell the smoking guy to move over a little because the smoke is difusing our way, much less telling the DM/Capt to simply find another body without much explanations. NO, WE have rights and those rights need to be heard, just not face to face to the interested parties.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think your issue is unhealthy divers!...where most will agree they don't want to buddy up with unhealthy divers...I don't even want to buddy up with healthy divers with bravado and lack of brains!

"Healthy" is good for diving though it isn't so easy to quantify. "Bravado" and "brains" are even more subjective. For instance, there are many people who don't smoke, which seems smart to me...but then they turn around and try to mess with the constitution to take away certain select rights of others while insisting on having the right to "choice" and trying to change the meaning of simple words that many of us have known for many many years, like "marriage".

I say we give smokers protection under the current crop of hate crimes lgislation and make speaking against smokers "hate speach" and therefor a "hate crime" LOL put that in a liberal pipe and smoke it.

...and yes people who smoke on the boat and then throw ciggs in the ocean friggin piss me off!

Littering is bad form no matter who does it. Although, I suppose the outragious taxes on tabaco products could pay for someone to follow along and clean up...an ash trey cady or something. LOL

 

[MikeFerrara]

you are kidding right?

We know that being fat and smoke is not healthy and we all know better than being tolerant, don't you know that tolerance is what allows them to continue on their road to perdition.

And right there in the same paragraph you tell us to dive with who we want?
you obviously were not thinking when you wrote that.

We don't say anything while in the boat, we don't even tell the smoking guy to move over a little because the smoke is difusing our way, much less telling the DM/Capt to simply find another body without much explanations. NO, WE have rights and those rights need to be heard, just not face to face to the interested parties.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. It's been a very long time since I was even on a dive boat that permitted smoking and I pick my own dive buddy...always and without exception.