Extremely BAD News: Dutch Springs likely closing permanently ...

[deeper thoughts]

Bethlehem Twp. zoning board OKs plan to save Dutch Springs quarry for divers

The water park will not reopen, but scuba diving and training will continue if the plan receives final approval from Lower Nazareth and Bethlehem townships.

www.wfmz.com

 

[-JD-]

It was clear from last night's presentation that, under the current plan, divers must be under the direct supervision of an insured pro. Bad news for certified divers looking to work on skills, shake down gear, or just get the rust off.

 

[tridacna]

It was clear from last night's presentation that, under the current plan, divers must be under the direct supervision of an insured pro. Bad news for certified divers looking to work on skills, shake down gear, or just get the rust off.

Are there limitations on number of divers? I imagine people will be arriving in large groups to bypass the 121 car limitation.

 

[Marie13]

It was clear from last night's presentation that, under the current plan, divers must be under the direct supervision of an insured pro. Bad news for certified divers looking to work on skills, shake down gear, or just get the rust off.

Under the direct supervision of a dive pro or as part of a shop sponsored group, not necessarily in a class? The latter is what happened in Pearl Lake, on the Il/WI border, the last two years, after it was sold in 2019. The sales contract only stipulated diving was allowed for two years. We’ll see what happens this year. There are RV spots surrounding the lake with them mostly permanently parked. A larger RV park group bought Pearl.

 

[flymolo]

Supervised diving with a DM only, and reservations required really puts a damper on any future prospect of "fun diving" at Dutch. I'm hoping this policy will change in the future but who knows. Prior to last night we all thought Dutch would be closed forever so allowing any diving at all is at least a step in the right direction.

That being said it feels like this arrangement was made to benefit dive shops and not the diving community at large.

 

[rhwestfall]

That being said it feels like this arrangement was made to benefit dive shops and not the diving community at large.

That was obvious to me when they hinted to the third party being brought in (I envisioned a Shop)... Also when it was explained there was a big reduction in parking.

Its over folks. The fat lady is warming up...

 

[flymolo]

That was obvious to me when they hinted to the third party being brought in (I envisioned a Shop)... Also when it was explained there was a big reduction in parking.

Its over folks. The fat lady is warming up...

I can see how the reduction in parking would be needed as the proposed warehouses take up a large part of the existing dry land. I just don't understand why the decision was made to restrict diving to "supervised dives only". Well, aside from insurance reasons, that is.

Hypothetically if you're a rebreather diver, and your buddy, who is also a rebreather diver, and, say, a PADI DM, would their insurance cover them in the event the two of you are diving different rebreathers and something happens to you?

 

[-JD-]

Are there limitations on number of divers? I imagine people will be arriving in large groups to bypass the 121 car limitation.

Under the direct supervision of a dive pro or as part of a shop sponsored group, not necessarily in a class? The latter is what happened in Pearl Lake, on the Il/WI border, the last two years, after it was sold in 2019. The sales contract only stipulated diving was allowed for two years. We’ll see what happens this year. There are RV spots surrounding the lake with them mostly permanently parked. A larger RV park group bought Pearl.

While they put on the owner of Atlantis Aquatics (the anointed "partner" to run the dive operations) as a (fairly lengthy) presentation witness to support the zoning variance application, questions about the operations were shut down almost immediately. The zoning board wasn't interested. Public Safety Diving and local fire departments will have access so there is "public good" reason to grant applications. In fairness to the board, the meetings typically end by 10pm and they didn't even get to the Dutch issue until after that and exact details of use are the purview of Planning, not Zoning. The board is probably the most applicant-friendly that I have heard of and the TC lawyer was VERY efficient.

That said, there was no info on total person capacity given and there must be an insured "pro" who is responsible for the divers - no greater specificity given. Atlantis did mention a rent-a-DM possibility and there were hints that something like the current model (surface supervision by lake guards) may be possible sometime.

 

[flymolo]

While they put on the owner of Atlantis Aquatics (the anointed "partner" to run the dive operations) as a (fairly lengthy) presentation witness to support the zoning variance application, questions about the operations were shut down almost immediately. The zoning board wasn't interested. Public Safety Diving and local fire departments will have access so there is "public good" reason to grant applications. In fairness to the board, the meetings typically end by 10pm and they didn't even get to the Dutch issue until after that and exact details of use are the purview of Planning, not Zoning. The board is probably the most applicant-friendly that I have heard of and the TC lawyer was VERY efficient.

That said, there was no info on total person capacity given and there must be an insured "pro" who is responsible for the divers - no greater specificity given. Atlantis did mention a rent-a-DM possibility and there were hints that something like the current model (surface supervision by lake guards) may be possible sometime.

Yes, I also took note when he hinted at possibly having surface supervision in the future. Hoping this current proposal is just him getting his foot in the door.

One thing I couldn't help but notice was how little interest the board had in people's objections to the various proposals being heard at the meeting. It seems like there is little if any opportunity for people to object to development projects, even if those individuals will be adversely affected.

 

[-JD-]

Yes, I also took note when he hinted at possibly having surface supervision in the future. Hoping this current proposal is just him getting his foot in the door.

One thing I couldn't help but notice was how little interest the board had in people's objections to the various proposals being heard at the meeting. It seems like there is little if any opportunity for people to object to development projects, even if those individuals will be adversely affected.

There is a big difference between Zoning and Planning. Sort of like the difference between Law and Ethics.

IMO, the actual variances being requested were either technical and of no or deminimus impact and in many cases perfectly consistent with the surroundings. The fact that a bunch of neighbors don't want a WAWA close by is common, and not particularly relevant with fundamentally-conforming zoning. The "negative" impact between an 18 or 20 foot sign top is really not much. But I agree it seems unusually applicant friendly.