Etymology of the word 'Stroke'

[bamamedic]

I think rather than diving with someone who is unwilling to listen to someone elses' ideas, or at the least, describe the rationale behind one's own ideas, I'd rather dive with the stroke.

But hey - maybe I AM the stroke.

LOL! I would tend to agree...seems pretty close-minded not to at least entertain other ideas.

 

[Gombessa]

The operative difference here being that these weren't simple, recreational dives they were doing. Their attitude was so hardline mainly because people were going into caves with inadequate training and procedures, and not coming out. I can accept that standards and standardization mean more in extreme environments.

 

[NudeDiver]

The operative difference here being that these weren't simple, recreational dives they were doing. Their attitude was so hardline mainly because people were going into caves with inadequate training and procedures, and not coming out. I can accept that standards and standardization mean more in extreme environments.

That's great - but to be completely unwilling to even listen to what someone else might have to contribute, or help someone understand WHY a standard is a standard smacks of a God Complex - or at least a General Complex. No thanks. If I wanted to just shut up and do what I was told, I would have stayed in the military.

 

[Diver Lori]

From an IANTD t-shirt a few years back....

Society of Technical Risk Optimizing Karst Explorers

 

[Gombessa]

That's great - but to be completely unwilling to even listen to what someone else might have to contribute, or help someone understand WHY a standard is a standard smacks of a God Complex - or at least a General Complex. No thanks. If I wanted to just shut up and do what I was told, I would have stayed in the military.

I seriously doubt the above accurately characterizes the way Parker Turner or George Irvine dove. In fact, they would probably have agreed wholeheartedly with what you said.

 

[InTheDrink]

So, to get back to the question: stroke refers to someone who wanted/needed their ego stroked?

 

[Thalassamania]

Parker was always willing to explain why he wanted something done a certain way. He was also (usually) willing to listen to changes in protocol assuming that you'd already tried it his way at least once. What Paker couldn't stand was the guys who would wander into his operation and tell him, "That's not the way we do it up in Jersey. Why when I was diving on the ..."

Research diving and real underwater exploration (and Parker was doing both) bears little relationship to blowing bubbles for the fun of it. If you want to do it, you do it the way the team does it, and that way is (most often) the way the supervisor decides it will be done. That doesn't mean there is no room for discussion ... later.

That's great - but to be completely unwilling to even listen to what someone else might have to contribute, or help someone understand WHY a standard is a standard smacks of a God Complex - or at least a General Complex. No thanks. If I wanted to just shut up and do what I was told, I would have stayed in the military.

That, my friend, is why some people have had the opportunity to dive in Wakulla and others have not. You see ... if you go and kill yourself ... all you are is dead. But you are also likely responsible for shutting down the program for everyone else.

 

[NudeDiver]

You see ... if you go and kill yourself ... all you are is dead.

Hmmm.....life as a brainless drone, incapable of thought and decision-making, mindlessly and blindly following others without question - or dead...hmm....tough choice.

 

[seaducer]

Parker was always willing to explain why he wanted something done a certain way. He was also (usually) willing to listen to changes in protocol assuming that you'd already tried it his way at least once. What Paker couldn't stand was the guys who would wander into his operation and tell him, "That's not the way we do it up in Jersey. Why when I was diving on the ..."
.

I am sure it is just the way I am reading this post but, sounds like certain personalities I have dealt with in the past with regards to team concepts.

There are other people around the world doing dangerous, complex diving. In the interest of disclosure I am not one of them. But lets say I am one of those divers, and I am meeting with Parker in an effort to see if I may contribute to the WKPP. If I feel I may have an idea or concept to contribute and he cuts me off because I have yet to try his method, then I will reject his team.

Having been involved in other dangerous and complex activities in the past I want to make sure that the team, and that includes the leader, is not so close minded as to be unwilling to entertain an idea just because I haven't met some pre-concieved level of status from within the organization.

To be fair I understand there are alot of people out there who throw out any rediculous idea in an attempt to impress. But if Parker had an effective operation going he should have been insulated from the non-hackers who most frequently engage in that type of thing.

Again, I am not saying he was an egomaniac who shunned any ideas. Just commenting on what I interperet from your post...

 

[seaducer]

Hmmm.....life as a brainless drone, incapable of thought and decision-making, mindlessly and blindly following others without question - or dead...hmm....tough choice.

I agree in spirit, but in my experience this is a misconception of DIR teams perpetuated by the "anti DIR divers", and is not an acurate representation of a "real" DIR minded diver.

Some of the most stimulating conversations I have had or overheard were made with DIR folks. And all except a few rabid dog personalities were willing to admit it is not the best for everything, and that it is even still a work in progress.

Don't let some silly things like a gut reaction to the term "DIR" or the sentiments of a few who have some grudge against the concept turn you off. There is alot of good ideas there, and at the very least it may be a different way of looking at a problem you are looking to solve in your own diving, sparking a fix you may not have thought of otherwise...