DumpsterDiver emergency ascent from 180'

[mmadiver]

that's what I used for that, we also have some nicer stuff that she knows how to use, just the motivation to get it done. If you have any specific ones you want, shoot me a PM. Had a couple ideas for this weekend if I get time

Video on servicing Xstreams!

 

[tbone1004]

@2airishuman
the creep could have been very slow and then when compounded by the depth compensation caused it to get real big real fast. It could have been very slow very small amount of creep or even drift that just got compounded with depth.
At 180ft, it is also possible the second stages were detuned because of the over-compensation of depth inherent to sealed diaphragm regulators.
At that depth, you have a roughly 100psi increase in IP vs. the surface and that could well have been the straw that broke the camels back with any small amount of creep or drift that was showing.

That is not a normal failure in diaphragm regulators, though I have had one exactly like that in a HOG D1, and I believe @victorzamora had one like that as well in another regulator.

@mmadiver don't have any xstreams unfortunately, but I need to redo the jetstream video. I have a few that need rebuild and now have a digital magnehelic, so will video that. Will do the Cyklon at the same time.

 

[Caveeagle]

@2airishuman..That is not a normal failure in diaphragm regulators, though I have had one exactly like that in a HOG D1, and I believe @victorzamora had one like that as well in another regulator.

I have also had a HOG D1 start leaking from the Enviro seal. I have not taken it completely apart, but I did some bench test that suggest a leaking HP seat created more pressure than the diaphragm could hold back, and caused the Eviro seal to "balloon" at the surface. I have been monitoring my IP fairly closely on my regs, and have only seen the enviro seal "balloon" on one case of creeping IP. So, just a theory, but I suspect the (youtube) example is actually two failures. the HP seat failure and subsequent diaphragm seal failure. I think the blown enviro seal is just a symptom, not the root cause. (**My opinion/theory)

@mmadiver don't have any xstreams unfortunately, but I need to redo the jetstream video. I have a few that need rebuild and now have a digital magnehelic, so will video that. Will do the Cyklon at the same time.[/QUOTE]

Was the request for an xstream 2nd stage? (or 1st?). I recently acquired a used xstream 2nd stage, and it appears to be just a scaled down Jetstream with the purge button moved to be independent from the exhaust. Nice little reg! I think if you are confident rebuilding and tuning a Jet, you should have no issue with an Xstream.

Now re the 1st stages.. I have never touched an xstream (mk4) 1st stage.

 

[tbone1004]

@Caveeagle correct. the enviro seal is not meant to hold air pressure in, it is meant to hold water out which is why the big plastic T piece is in there.
Youtube video is one failure which was the diaphragm, that when it allowed pressurized air to pass, caused the enviro seal to blow out.

Xstream 1sts' are mk3's, the mk4 isn't out yet though I have seen the CAD drawings for it

 

[Colliam7]

I'Does Zeagle use balanced seconds or some other design that doesn't vent gas?

If the IP rises high enough, the Zeagle second stages will vent.

the creep could have been very slow and then when compounded by the depth compensation caused it to get real big real fast. It could have been very slow very small amount of creep or even drift that just got compounded with depth. At 180ft, it is also possible the second stages were detuned because of the over-compensation of depth inherent to sealed diaphragm regulators..

And, it is quite possible that he was diving with a seriously detuned alternate second stage - some prefer that for whatever reason - and that he turned on his back gas right before splashing, so he didn't have a good opportunity to notice a slight flow from the primary second stage - it is already in your mouth at the point the freeflow finally starts, and you don't notice it.

We can theorize about the cause. But, since several people in the thread are apparently in communication with him about the incident, it would be nice to know the actual results of the post-mortem on the 1st stage. What was found when it was opened up afterward? (I presume that happened fairly soon - I would certainly break down my 1st stage to figure out what happened.),

 

[kelemvor]

I have also had a HOG D1 start leaking from the Enviro seal. I have not taken it completely apart, but I did some bench test that suggest a leaking HP seat created more pressure than the diaphragm could hold back, and caused the Eviro seal to "balloon" at the surface. I have been monitoring my IP fairly closely on my regs, and have only seen the enviro seal "balloon" on one case of creeping IP. So, just a theory, but I suspect the (youtube) example is actually two failures. the HP seat failure and subsequent diaphragm seal failure. I think the blown enviro seal is just a symptom, not the root cause. (**My opinion/theory)

I have seen that seal balloon on a HOG D1. Since it wasn't mine, I wasn't privy to what the tech found when it was later fixed.

 

[2airishuman]

And, it is quite possible that he was diving with a seriously detuned alternate second stage - some prefer that for whatever reason - and that he turned on his back gas right before splashing, so he didn't have a good opportunity to notice a slight flow from the primary second stage - it is already in your mouth at the point the freeflow finally starts, and you don't notice it.

Makes sense. He dives an Air2-type integrated secondary and power inflator. I would imagine it's tuned to draw a little harder than a primary would be, since they usually are.

I myself notice right away when my primary is dribbling air, though.

 

[Colliam7]

I myself notice right away when my primary is dribbling air, though.

Good for you! Me, too!

 

[Diving Dubai]

And when comes to BSAC, my impression is that they rely heavily on mentoring. I doubt that many BSAC dive officers would allow a freshly certified diver to plan a dive to 50m on a club dive, even if they were certified for that depth.

Yes for sure, but this is on top of the certification process. You can ask to undertake the next step, but if your peers don't think you're ready for it, they won't teach you - but they will engage in steps for you to meet the required standard to start.

As to the 50m qualification. First you need to complete Dive leader (DM) by which time you will have learnt and carried out planned deco dives under training. then you have to make 3 depth progression dives. Again if you're not ready/wrong attitude you won't get to carry out the dive.

 

[Diving Dubai]

As a follow on, a couple of weeks ago I was on a 50m dive. On the site I had the big down current.

Even though my buddy was teh club divign officer, I had to submit a dive and gas plan, because we were usign different computers with different algorithms we had to plan around that too

I took a 15l @ 232 bar of 21%, a slung AL 80 200bar of 32% ( which was both a deco gas and a redundant bailout) and a S50 of 50%. My buddy had similar

After an hours dive and 13mins total deco (no hang required as we could come up the pinnicle) I had 130bar of Air remaining,150 of 32% and about 120bar of 50%

I'm a big fan of P for plenty. Some might find this excessive and that's fine. I prefer to be cautious It wasn't onerious to sling that gear and dive with it.

If something bad had happened it's wouldn't be due to a lack of gas