Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[kathydee]

You see, the answer to the "the wild card" (good concept) is not the thing, its your ability to assure yourself that, without too much pain, you're going to survive.

Thanks. Your words make a lot of sense, and I'm sure will continue to mean more as I contemplate them deeper and gain in diving expereince. It also makes sense to practice sharing air before deeper dives & to learn to extend one breath.

However, with only 63 dives and training through a recent certification course, I feel a little insecure accurately locating my true "cone" because basic scuba training gives general emergency skills, but doesn't seem to explicitly teach about "wild card" situations. The insecurity came when, recently, I learned of and experienced a few "wild cards" that I was previously unaware should be factored into my "cone." Luckily, durring my own experience, I didn't leave the "cone." Basic skills saw me to shallower water and I was quickly back in the center, completing the dive--a bit shaken and wondering what else I may have missed in basic training.

My confidence and skills are slowly building. As I perceive my cone to sink deeper, I am concerned perhaps other risks exist that I have not considered in my mental calculations. Without these variables included in the equation, I may indeed be closer to the edge of the "cone," than the center, where I perceive myself to be. I do tend to be a bit conservative, so perhaps I am actually smack dab in the center - Just trying to learn more about the SCUBA landscape to make sure ;-).

I applied the same caution to my old primary sport of extreme rock climbing (was incredibly fortunate to learn from some of the best pros) and the knowledge paid off dearly.

Is the DAN accident report available online?

 

[SteveAD]

I am glad for what I have taught years back in most ways; however, my bro-in-law and nephew didn't get tested on mask removal and replace. That really pisses me off since it is critical part of diving. You never know what is gotta happen to you until that moment that your mask accidently removed. BTW, they just got certified a week ago - that's how recent it is.

If they took a PADI class that is a clear violation of standards. Mask remove/replace is definitely a listed skill of which the student is required to demonstrate mastery.

 

[TSandM]

Kathydeee, I would highly recommend reading through the Accidents and the Near Misses threads here, and on any other boards you might frequent. I have learned an enormous amount from doing that, being introduced to issues I never knew about, and reading how people dealt with them, and how others think they might have been better dealt with.

You don't know what you don't know. It's always true when you are new at something, and it's also true that what you don't know CAN hurt you.

 

[Walter]

Footnote: Those same tables also recommended that you waited 2 hours after diving before flying. Or 12 hours if you had to decompress.

Are you working from memory or do you have a different set of tables? Mine [Copyright (PADI) 1983] say, " For flying up to 8,000 feet after diving: Less than 1 hour TBT, wait 4 hours; less than 4 hours TBT, wait 12 hours. Consult PADI Diver Manual for more information."

 

[ronbeau]

I always get the impression its a "Kids today" mentality. I saw it with old FFs and Paramedics at the Fire Dept, and see it in the oil field now. "Let me tell you how it was when I was coming up" if you know what I mean. I still want to see true stats that percentage wise we are getting more people hurt today, or any evidence based information.
Alot of people knock PADI because its such a big agency, and eveyone likes to "feud" with the giant. Happens in alot of sports and hobbies...or in general.

You mean statements like "When I was a kid we walked to school through 12 inches of snow and the trip to school was uphill in both directions. ...".

 

[Web Monkey]

My confidence and skills are slowly building. As I perceive my cone to sink deeper, I am concerned perhaps other risks exist that I have not considered in my mental calculations. Without these variables included in the equation, I may indeed be closer to the edge of the "cone," than the center, where I perceive myself to be. I do tend to be a bit conservative, so perhaps I am actually smack dab in the center - Just trying to learn more about the SCUBA landscape to make sure ;-).

If you read the Accidents and Incidents section of the board, you'll notice that with the exception of unpredictable medical events, a huge proportion of the problems start off with the poster or a board member remarking how dumb something was. There's almost always something that the diver did that was mentioned in training and was ignored and allowed the problem to occur.

A lot of them involve thing like:

• OOA because the diver was unaware of tank pressure
• OOA or unable to share air because of poor or nonexistent gas planning
• Not following training (going back down after surfacing to look for "lost" buddy)
• Doing a really stupid dive (too deep, bad conditions, peer pressure, entering a cave or wreck without the proper training and equipment and procedures)

The best way to not be involved in an incident is to not be there when it happens. If you continuously keep an eye out for things that make you go "wow, that's going to be bad." then avoid those things or end the dive, there will be a lot fewer actual problems. This isn't as bizzare as it sounds. The more you can "stack the deck" in your favor before and during the dive, the safer you'll be.

The A&I section here is a great tool and I'd recommend reading as much of it as you can handle. Hindsight is 20-20 and the board members are generally pretty honest (brutal), so it's easy to see where things started to go bad on each dive.

Terry

 

[Thalassamania]

You mean statements like "When I was a kid we walked to school through 12 inches of snow and the trip to school was uphill in both directions. ...".

Or perhaps some divers with a bit more experience and perspective know something that you don't.

 

[Walter]

You mean statements like "When I was a kid we walked to school through 12 inches of snow and the trip to school was uphill in both directions. ...".

That's exactly what he meant, but it just shows he has no experience with the facts. Most of today's classes are shorter and harder than what they once were. In a quality class (hard to find, but still around), skills are broken down into smaller steps to make them

easier

to learn. A quality class takes longer and in today's instant gratification society, that's a hard sell. Selling the class is harder, actually completing the class is easier.

 

[ronbeau]

Or perhaps some divers with a bit more experience and perspective know something that you don't.

My posting must have lost something in translation.

I was not agreeing with the shorter class duration. I was only commenting about his point that some people use exaggeration instead of giving a forthright explanation for their reasoning which accomplishes nothing but having most people dismiss it as bluster.

That was the only point of my posting.

I actually feel that a longer duration course allows the student to better absorb and understand the material. This is based on teaching college courses (computer science not scuba) as an adjunct faculty member at the local community college since 1989.

Did you think i was agreeing with his posting?

 

[ronbeau]

That's exactly what he meant, but it just shows he has no experience with the facts. Most of today's classes are shorter and harder than what they once were. In a quality class (hard to find, but still around), skills are broken down into smaller steps to make them to learn. A quality class takes longer and in today's instant gratification society, that's a hard sell. Selling the class is harder, actually completing the class is easier.

Since both you and Thal appear to have misinterpreted my posting it must have left a lot to be desired. Please see my response to Thal.

I would actually have no basis to form an opinion of Scuba training in the late 1980s and 1990s since I was not certified until 2004.

As I mentioned in my response to Thal, I feel the longer course allows the student a better chance to fully assimilate and understand the material.

My only point in my original posting is that bluster seldom if ever conveys useful since most intelligent people will dismiss it.