Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[jscott099]

I like guys like -hh who put some numbers on the paper (see the post back on the 16th). It intuitively fits, the lower your dive experience, the more likely it is you make mistakes, get bent, get lost, forget to turn the air on, etc.

I like to compare diving to other activities I was trained in and engage in: flying airplanes, skydiving, hang gliding, sailing, and motorcycle riding.

In each of these, I was trained with a specific program of education. You learn the basics and how to handle the most common of emergency scenarios. After that the remainder of your education is by either doing or taking continuing training. And, in each of these sports, the accident and goof-up rates are similar: low time means more likely to have accidents and mistakes. Even driving a car is like that.

In all these cases, however, there was a business venture behind the training that had two main objectives: satisfy the customer's desire for training within reasonable limits of dollars and time; and meet minimum training standards prescribed.

No, I don't think we have dumbed anything down. Yes, I could go on and on and teach people for days everything they could ever possibly need to know. Would they have the patience, or time, or dollars to do it; I doubt it. Diving is an industry that meets a need for people to get in the water and start diving with some reasonable sense of safety and skill.

We seem to be accomplishing that goal. In addition, there is big money to be made in continuing education. For example, your master diver rating most likely cost much more to achieve in terms of hours of commitment and cost than your original cert.

 

[SteveAD]

The "Put Another" term has nothing to do with making profits. That term refers to making standards so low that the instructor is selling certifications instead of selling training. Any time there's a situation where anyone can buy a certification, the instructor and/or agency is putting profits ahead of safety. That is wrong when ever it happens. If it happens with PADI, it's wrong. If it happens with any other agency, it's wrong. Those who use that term honestly believe PADI's standards are so low that the product is not training, but is c-cards.

Sorry walter, but this has nothing to do with standards. No matter how high the standard is, any instructor can choose to "sell a certification" or train a diver right.

I train to PADI standards. I also have one overriding standard, which is "would I dive with this person?" If they're not a good enough diver for me to go out diving with, they don't get the card...yet. I also never fail students. If they fail to meet standards, they get additional training until they do meet standards or they quit.

 

[boulderjohn]

I like guys like -hh who put some numbers on the paper (see the post back on the 16th). It intuitively fits, the lower your dive experience, the more likely it is you make mistakes, get bent, get lost, forget to turn the air on, etc.

Please note that his statistics are from 1988--twenty years ago. I posted the most recent statistics (2007) a page ago, and they look very different. I did not read them all,, but in the ones I did read carefully (quite a few), there was not much due to decompression sickness at all (I can't remember any), and the two that I remember that dealt with air turn on problems were from extremely experienced divers, including an experienced and fully certified cave diver.

If you are a DAN member, you can go to the web site and download the report for free. Take a look. It sure beats guessing about what it says or implies.

 

[boulderjohn]

I just want to point out that a couple of the most active participants in this thread can no longer read any posts or respond because, to the best of my knowledge, they are not professionals and cannot participate now that the thread was moved to this forum.

 

[Walter]

I just want to point out that a couple of the most active participants in this thread can no longer read any posts or respond because, to the best of my knowledge, they are not professionals and cannot participate now that the thread was moved to this forum.

True. There was no reason to hide this thread in I2I. This thread is not the type of thread that needs to be here. It needs to be out where everyone can see it.

 

[Thalassamania]

Sorry walter, but this has nothing to do with standards. No matter how high the standard is, any instructor can choose to "sell a certification" or train a diver right.

It has everything to do with standards, the reduction of standards and the carving up of standards into separately priced products, a suite of which is required to produce a minimally qualified diver.

I train to PADI standards.

My condolences.

I also have one overriding standard, which is "would I dive with this person?" If they're not a good enough diver for me to go out diving with, they don't get the card

That is against PADI standards.

...yet. I also never fail students. If they fail to meet standards, they get additional training until they do meet standards or they quit.

I applaud your values and enthusiasm. As I understand them, that's still outside of standards.

 

[300bar]

For some stupid reason(unknown to me ) this thread was moved(by me) to I2I
It should not have gone there,so now it's back.
Guess it was a bit late and I did not look at what I was doing.

So it's back and I'm sorry.

Have fun.

 

[Walter]

Thanks for returning it.

 

[Rhone Man]

If everyone is going to go into the "when I was young" stories, then I want my turn.

When I was certified (which was only in 1984 - it is not like it is ancient history), I did my PADI open water divers with a nice new set of US Navy dive tables with a PADI logo in the corner that I was given for the purposes of the course.

Those tables included the relevant decompression times if you overstayed your NDL limits by a few minutes, and included your repetitive dive group for after your decompression was over.

I am not sure when between 1984 and today that got dropped, but I can imagine the look in PADI HQ if you suggested them putting deco times in their recreational dive planner today, and then impliedly suggested people go on diving later the same day after decompression.

Footnote: Those same tables also recommended that you waited 2 hours after diving before flying. Or 12 hours if you had to decompress.

 

[ScubaJW]

I am glad for what I have taught years back in most ways; however, my bro-in-law and nephew didn't get tested on mask removal and replace. That really pisses me off since it is critical part of diving. You never know what is gotta happen to you until that moment that your mask accidently removed. BTW, they just got certified a week ago - that's how recent it is.