DSAT Tech Deep Diver.

[Kim]

I would be interested in comments about this course. I am considering taking it next year in Malaysia with a dive op/instructor that I have already had some training from.

 

[padiscubapro]

I would be interested in comments about this course. I am considering taking it next year in Malaysia with a dive op/instructor that I have already had some training from.

I think you should get specifics from the instructor and the target profiles.. my only experience with this program is from the instructor manual and a few students that came to me for ANDI training after taking a dsat class.. I never applied to teach the program since I did not agree with certain ascpects of the program.


The students came to me for ext range and trimix training.. even though they were certified as dsat divers and in 1 case was a DSAT instructor and CD none of them ever did mandatory deco everything was simulated, needless to say they were totally unprepared for my training.. (which typically starts with 45-60 minutes of mandatory deco and progresses from there) The iinstructor I worked with, the otehrs were told they needed to take additinal training and experience befror progressing..


I am not saying all classes are run this way but they can be.. chose your instructor carefully..

Technical diving is just as much mental training and preperation as the skill training.

 

[Kim]

I already have had some contact with one of my instructors (there will probably be two) The last 4 dives are all mandatory deco - not simulated. The full dive list looks like this:

The 12 training dives of the DSAT Tec Deep diver course include but are not limited to:
• Dive 1: Depth 2.5 – 10 meters – Twin tank Hovering, valve shutdowns, long hose use / out of air (S-drill), get used to equipment
• Dive 2: Depth 2.5 – 10 meters – Twin tank plus one stage/deco cylinder Bubble/descent check, S-drill, stage tank removal and replacements (R&R), gas switches, valve shutdown drills, deploy lift bag, SAC (air consumption) swim
• Dive 3: Depth 2.5 – 10 meters – Twin tank plus two stage/deco cylinders Don stage 2 tanks on surface, Bubble/descent check, S-drill, stage/deco tank R&R, gas switches, Hovering, stage/deco tank R&R swimming, stage/deco tank R&R without mask, gas drills, SAC swim, unresponsive diver tow, SAC simulated deco stop
• Dive 4: Depth 12 – 24 meters – Twin tank plus one stage/deco cylinder Bubble/descent check, stage cylinder R&R, long hose drill, SAC swim, deploy lift bag, valve shutdown drill, SAC simulated deco stops with gas switch, remove tanks on surface
• Dive 5: Depth 15 – 24 meters – Twin tank plus two stage/deco cylinders Don cylinders at surface, bubble/descent check, cylinder R&R, no mask long hose drill, SAC fast swim, valve shutdown drills, deploy lift bag, switch to first deco gas, SAC simulated deco stops, switch to second deco gas, SAC deco stops, remove deco cylinders on surface
• Dive 6: Depth 24 – 30 meters – Twin tank plus one stage/deco cylinder Don stage cylinder at surface, bubble/descent check, long hose drill, to stage tank, BCD failure drill, Deploy liftbag, simulated decompression stop with air break, valve shutdown drills hovering, stage removal on surface
• Dive 7: Depth 24 – 33 meters – Twin tank plus two stage/deco cylinders (multilevel dive) Don stage cylinder at surface, bubble/descent check, stage deco cylinder at deco, stage tank R&R swimming, gas switch to stage tank, computer failure drill, deploy liftbag, retrieve deco tank, gas switch to deco tank, simulated decompression stops, valve shutdown drills hovering
• Dive 8: Depth 27 – 40 meters – Twin tank plus one or two stage/deco cylinders (multilevel) Don stage cylinder at surface, bubble/descent check, free descent, stage cylinders, unresponsive diver tow, valve shutdown drills, retrieve cylinders, deploy liftbag, gas switch, simulated decompression stops, valve shutdown drills, hovering
• Dive 9: Depth 27 – 43 meters – Twin tank plus one stage/deco cylinder Don stage cylinder at surface, bubble/descent check, gas shutdown drill, timed task, gas switch, decompression according to table/computer
• Dive 10: Depth 36 – 46 meters – Twin tank plus one or two stage/deco cylinders Don stage cylinder at surface, bubble/descent check, dive mission/objective, surprise drills, gas switch, decompression according to table/computer
• Dive 11*: Depth 40 – 50 meters – Twin tank plus one or two stage/deco cylinders Don stage cylinder at surface, bubble/descent check, dive mission/objective, surprise drills, gas switch, decompression according to table/computer
• Dive 12*: Depth 44 – 50 meters – Twin tank plus one or two stage/deco cylinders Don stage cylinder at surface, bubble/descent check, dive mission/objective, surprise drills, gas switch, decompression according to table/computer

It seems fairly comprehensive to me, but I would welcome more experienced viewpoints.

 

[padiscubapro]

I already have had some contact with one of my instructors (there will probably be two) The last 4 dives are all mandatory deco - not simulated. The full dive list looks like this:


It seems fairly comprehensive to me, but I would welcome more experienced viewpoints.

actually there is no specified decompression requirements even for the last 4 dives.. it CAN be simulated, its not against standards (the instructor is responsible for the dive planning).. The profiles I was shown had "decompression " stops but if you really analyze the profiles they were absolutely unnecessary... When i analyzed one of the profiles, to come up with the stops there was over 40% conservatism added, a normal profile would have allowed direct ascent to the surface if necessary..

A common way instructors extend bottom time without adding deco is to do multilevel profiles, careful planning can really keep alot of divers out of deco...

I am not trying to bash anyting just give you a friendly warning.. If the person runs programs regialrly they should be able to supply you with typical profiles they do for each of the dives.. I know I can tel you without running any software or looking things up a ballpark profile for a particular dive...

for 45m dive (cold water) I typically require 30 minutes at 45m with about 25 minutes of required deco for entry level tech divers..
If I am in warm warter, my last dives are even longer..I'll increase the time at max depth (usually another 15 minutes) , move up to a shallower level( ~18m for around 30 minutes) (which will allow some decompression so that the final requirements are under 30 minutes)

If you don;t train the divers to do some extended time in the water they are unprepared to go on their own...

 

[Kim]

Well, I am actually sure that the last 4 dives are real deco. In fact the last 2 dives are possible to do on the HMS Repulse & Prince of Wales if you want to (costs a little more though as it involves a liveaboard).
I will check again though - so thanks for the heads up.
I can't really see that:

The Tec Deep Diver (10 day program) is qualified to make gas-switch extended no-stop dives, decompression stop dives and accelerated decompression stop dives to 50 meters, using air, enriched air nitrox and pure oxygen and to use technical diving equipment and procedures.

could really be true if you had only ever simulated it though!

I will ask about the actual profiles as you suggested.

 

[mania]

Honestly this program didn't get high grades here in Poland. Most of our technical divers are SDI, TDI or IANTD and all of them critisied DSAT.
Kim why don't you take Tech1 instead or start with what I'm srtuggling - Advanced nitrox?
Mania

 

[Mortlock]

I've taken this course and I thought it was very good. I'd already done some TDI courses and DSAT seemed to be far better organised and more challenging (except for TDI adv. wreck, that's the best course I've ever done!!). I don't have any criticisms of this course except for the cheesy videos and sometimes tedious knowledge reviews. One of the things I really liked about it was the attitude it teaches. The course discourages inter-agency bashing and superiority complexes (something the diving community certainly has too much of) and encourages divers to be humble and always ready to learn new things.

I reckon you should go for it, especially the extra dives on the battlecruisers! I can't wait to get out to those ships.

As Padiscubapro says though, it will definately depend on your instructor as to how much you'll get out of it. I luckily had the best instructor I've ever come across to teach me and we did some loooong dives. If you're uncertain about your instructor then PM me and I'll give you the details of this guy (he's in the Philippines though).

Morty

 

[Kim]

Honestly this program didn't get high grades here in Poland. Most of our technical divers are SDI, TDI or IANTD and all of them critisied DSAT.
Kim why don't you take Tech1 instead or start with what I'm srtuggling - Advanced nitrox?
Mania

Well I originally intended to go the IANTD route but my instructor isn't in Malaysia for the foreseeable future. However his partner is, but he is a DSAT instructor. The thing is I know Ben very well - I even did my rescue course with his girlfriend years ago!! To go the GUE route I'd have to start with DIR-F, and it's simply too expensive to contemplate in Japan as all the courses are up in Tokyo. I'm not sure but I think that the DSAT Tech Deep has an equivalency to Tech1 from GUE. I know it has an equivalency to Technical Diver/Extended range from other agencies.
Actually reading the couple of threads about it on TDS it seems to be quite a good course - IF you can get past the PADI aspect. At this level though I am sure it's really about the instructor and as I already know Ben I have a lot of confidence. Basically the knowledge and skill set doesn't change no matter what title it's wrapped up in - and I just want to learn it properly.
I do agree with padiscubapro though that you need to check what you are getting!!!! I wouldn't be interested if I only learn simulations and don't get hands on experience with real deco. Like I said to him though - I'm checking that (already sent an email) and I will post the rough profiles when I get them.
In the end I simply want to learn to safely do decompression diving using mixed gases. The logical step after that (maybe a year later) is full Trimix.

 

[padiscubapro]

Well I originally intended to go the IANTD route but my instructor isn't in Malaysia for the foreseeable future. However his partner is, but he is a DSAT instructor. The thing is I know Ben very well - I even did my rescue course with his girlfriend years ago!! To go the GUE route I'd have to start with DIR-F, and it's simply too expensive to contemplate in Japan as all the courses are up in Tokyo. I'm not sure but I think that the DSAT Tech Deep has an equivalency to Tech1 from GUE. I know it has an equivalency to Technical Diver/Extended range from other agencies.
Actually reading the couple of threads about it on TDS it seems to be quite a good course - IF you can get past the PADI aspect. At this level though I am sure it's really about the instructor and as I already know Ben I have a lot of confidence. Basically the knowledge and skill set doesn't change no matter what title it's wrapped up in - and I just want to learn it properly.
I do agree with padiscubapro though that you need to check what you are getting!!!! I wouldn't be interested if I only learn simulations and don't get hands on experience with real deco. Like I said to him though - I'm checking that (already sent an email) and I will post the rough profiles when I get them.
In the end I simply want to learn to safely do decompression diving using mixed gases. The logical step after that (maybe a year later) is full Trimix.

ANDI only recognizes the DSAT training as an equivalent to our entry level tech training as long as they can pass our l3 final exam and evaluation by an instructor. Deep tech allows a second deco cylinder, we don;t on our entry, but our ext range is unlimited gear, unlimited deco..

 

[Kim]

I presume that you mean the TSD L3 Technical safe air? As far as I can see this is the only prerequisite to Trimix - is that right? (or the other L3 advanced courses) - it's also to 50 meters and as you pointed out the only other difference appears to be the number of stage/deco cylinders. That seems to put it at about the same level. I don't quite understand the ANDI standards page where it says - 3 tanks/3 gases (or something like that) - as presumably two of the tanks are back gas how can you use 3 gases?