Drysuit certification really needed?

[W W Meixner]

A dry suit has more inherent buoyancy and for some tech instructors is considered a back up to BC failure. You gain lift from a dry suit, it's why you wear more weight.

There's a whole lot more to wing lift selection and at 5 OW dives, I wouldn't concern yourself too much yet. When you start diving steel doubles, know that you better be thinking about that.

If you want to dive a dry suit, rent one or try one in a pool - it's weird at first but really a great way to dive, just takes a small amount of skills and knowledge - that's why they have the class.

Hey Chuck...

First of all...I dive a drysuit full-time...one of my AOW specialties was dry-suit...

To me...a dry-suit is 90% proper fit...and 10% everything else...a properly fitting dry-suit should be no more buoyant...than a properly fitting 7mm one piece wet-suit...a two piece 7mm wet suit is far more buoyant than a properly fitting dry-suit...

It's not the suit that's buoyant...it's the trapped air...and a properly fitting dry-suit will not trap air...

The attached photo is my suit...and how my suit fits me...

With single HP steel 117's I use 12 pounds of ballast...with double HP steel 100's/117's no ballast...with my light-weight rebreathers...24 pounds of ballast...

During my dive the only time my wing has any gas is ''surface pre-descent...and surface post ascent''...otherwise my wing is empty and neutral trim is maintained by dry-suit gas only...I have an inflator hose plugged into my bailout bottle reg for dry-suit inflation...

Just me...the art is not in the suit...the art is a properly fitting suit...or load up with ballast...which is incorrect and dangerous...

Just me...

Best...Warren

 

[W W Meixner]

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[Neilwood]

I would definitely advise a drysuit course - although air is air, how it works in relation to buoyancy and trim is different between a drysuit and wing/BCD.

A drysuit valve tends not to react at the same speed as either an inflater or dump valve - due to the undersuits, it can take longer for air to migrate out of the suit.

Then there is the issue of trim - whereas a wing/BCD puts the air either behind or around your core, the suit (unless you dive shrink wrapped with absolutely no air in it) will allow air to migrate to the highest part. That means if you get air in your feet you need to know how to get it out of there or you will be doing a feet first ascent (which is no fun - ask me how I know).

While you can learn these things by trial and error, getting an instructor or mentor to teach you is well worthwhile. It will potentially take some time to get used to using a drysuit after diving wet - I am still not quite as confident in the drysuit as I was in the wetsuit.

 

[Storker]

It's not the suit that's buoyant...it's the trapped air...and a properly fitting dry-suit will not trap air...

Except that you want air inside your suit, at least if it's a shell suit. And what traps the air is the undersuit.

Right now, I have two undersuits. I need some 4-5 kg less on my belt with the thinnest, so it traps some 4-5 liters less gas than the thick one. But if I use it on a winter dive, I'll probably freeze my bollocks off. On the other hand, the thick undersuit keeps me comfy warm for up to an hour in real winter temperatures.

 

[W W Meixner]

Except that you want air inside your suit, at least if it's a shell suit. And what traps the air is the undersuit.

** Just enough to relieve ''squeeze''...which isn't much...not enough to require additional ballast...remembering it's ''at depth'' neutral the diver wants...not ''over-weighted'' causing continual filling and dumping to remain neutral...and maintain profile...

** Further...as I mentioned...the only time I have gas in my wing...is surface-pre-descent...and surface post-ascent...during the dive...my wing is always empty...

Right now, I have two undersuits. I need some 4-5 kg less on my belt with the thinnest, so it traps some 4-5 liters less gas than the thick one. But if I use it on a winter dive, I'll probably freeze my bollocks off. On the other hand, the thick undersuit keeps me comfy warm for up to an hour in real winter temperatures.

** I have one undergarment set...and a couple ''layering'' pieces...keeps me toasty in 38 DF water...and my undergarment does not ''trap'' air either...I abandoned the snowmobile suit type undergarments a long time ago...because...as you have said...''they trap air''...

** You can...using 2019 technology...have sufficient insulation in your dry-suit system...without bulk...and having to use 40 pounds of ballast to get neutral...

Just me...

W.W...

 

[DarrynSami]

I just completed the PADI drysuit course last month. I found that it is easy to find information and video on how to dive and care for a drysuit. The instruction part of the course was not more informative. What I found valuable was the pool sessions for practicing needed skills prior to getting in the salt water. I also was able to try out three different types of drysuits in order to narrow down which drysuit I will purchase. The certification meant little. I didn't have a competent friend to instruct me and didn't have access to the suits without renting them from the LDS so I took the course from them. You can learn with good instruction and shallow practice dives if you have access to them without the certification. Good Luck!

 

[Storker]

I abandoned the snowmobile suit type undergarments a long time ago...because...as you have said...''they trap air''...

And?

Air is what provides insulation. Nearly every insulation material known to man - and some 99.9% of those commercially available - work by trapping and immobilizing air. Because air has a very low heat transfer coefficient. The only real affordable alternative to stagnant air is vacuum. Which is commonly found in Thermos bottles, but rather impractical in drysuit undergarments.

And because basic physics, one liter of air provides 1 kg of buoyancy. As Lynne (TSandM) once said, weight = warmth. Adding a couple of kilos to your weight belt is a well-known trick in cold water country to get a little warmer during winter.

 

[W W Meixner]

And?

Air is what provides insulation. Nearly every insulation material known to man - and some 99.9% of those commercially available - work by trapping and immobilizing air. Because air has a very low heat transfer coefficient. The only real affordable alternative to stagnant air is vacuum. Which is commonly found in Thermos bottles, but rather impractical in drysuit undergarments.

And because basic physics, one liter of air provides 1 kg of buoyancy. As Lynne (TSandM) once said, weight = warmth. Adding a couple of kilos to your weight belt is a well-known trick in cold water country to get a little warmer during winter.

S...

Not to get into an argument...

W=W...maybe back when a dive-light was a candle in a plastic bag...and divers dove with weight belts...but not anymore...

My friend raved about his ''Weesle'' undergarment...three times the cost of my T-MAX-HEAT...10 times the air trapping bulk...and not any warmer...the last time we were together...his hands...in dry-gloves...were cold...as was his trunk...my T-MAX-HEAT...and semi-dry 5mm Waterproof G1 gloves...warm/comfortable...water was 39/42 DF...

Works for me...I like this math better...WS=W/C/NB...Warren's System=Warm/Comfort/No Ballast...

W.W...

 

[Storker]

S...

W=W...

?

 

[W W Meixner]

?

Read your own thread...weight=warmth...not so...