dry suit DUI vs Fusion

[Crush]

I believe that this: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/exposure-suits/294214-dui-dry-suits-overrated.html may be the definitive SB post on drysuits. A length excerpt is worth highlighting:

First, let me warn you, there are few issues in diving that have more opinions backed by less data that dry suit selection. I doubt if there are more than a few divers on the board here who have, long term, dove more than one or at most two different designs of suit. Dry suits are very expensive items and folks get real ego involved when they make multi thousand dollar decisions, if you know what I mean. Most folks dive what their instructor or LDS tells them to, and unfortunately most Instructors have limited dry suit experience and most LDS only have one or two brands of suit to sell you and don’t really understand the advantages and drawbacks of even those suits.

...

The bottom line is that for dive gear, real information is hard to come by. Most of the opinions that you see on the net are biased either by being the only piece of that class of gear that a new diver has ever used or being a loaner that the expert tried out on one or two dives.

The thing that you need to do is find an expert who is doing the kind of diving that you plan on doing and ask him or her about the gear. That may well not be an Instructor. Don’t be afraid to bore on in, why … why … why. If you do not get answers that you understand, find another expert. Make sure that the advice makes sense in terms that you understand. When it does, buy the gear and never look back.[/FONT][/COLOR]

With all that said, I really can’t advise you until you define the diving you want to use your new suit for, but here are some thoughts:

Crushed, laminate and vulcanized suits have no inherent insulative properties so they are totally depended upon underwear and gas trapped in the suit for insulation. As you descend you add gas to the suit and that keeps both buoyancy and thermal characterizes constant.

Uncrushed neoprene (and please understand that there is a HUGE difference between the neoprene many suit manufacturers use and quality Rubatex in terms of compression) will crush with depth, but not 1/2 at 33 foot, 1/4 at 99 ft, etc. As is does, you must introduce gas into the suit to maintain neutral buoyancy, just as with a membrane suit, and that keeps the insulation about the same.

Which is best? I don't really know. I've had Unisuits, Jetsuits, Vikings, DUIs, and a Polaris (Rubatex suit from a small Santa Cruz custom house) over the years. I currently have the Polaris which I prefer for shore diving, a Viking for polluted water (nothing else can really be disinfected) and a DUI that is a joy for boat diving. I use an old set of Unisuit woolies under the Polaris and a ripstop/holowfill/synthetic pile (the blue and gray stuff) set of Viking underwear under the Viking and DUI.

For protection from the rocks the Polaris is the best, for minimum drag while swimming the Viking wins hands down, for ease of in and out, the DUI gets the nod. For ease of repair, it's the Viking. There is one thing that I have in common on all three suits: SiTec wrist rings (which I use with wrist seals) and SiTec neckseal/dogcollar/dryhood system. I can easily introduce air into the glove by raising my hand and wiggling my fingers (this lets some air past the latex wrist seal) and I can get air out by careful “burping.” The neckseal system allows me to throw away a torn neckseal and have a new one in place in seconds, and the dry hood adds a lot of warmth.

I've yet to find the single use that the tilam excels at, it is light, packing away small for travel, and dries quickly, perhaps it’s advantage is being second best at everything … no small feat.

No question, if durability is the only issue, a Viking HD (or equivalent) is the suit of choice. A viking style suit (viking, gates, avon, etc.) will take the most of that sort of abuse since the material does not wet (it is also the only style suit that is as "good as new" after a field repair.

 

[MarineResearch]

I've had a Fusion for a couple of years and have been quite happy. I have used my Fusion in a wide variety of diving conditions, including Florida caves, CA tech and wreck diving, high altitude lakes and just plain CA recreational dives. The suit is quite flexible (I can easily reach all of my valves) and has been very durable. I have a tech skin with pockets and it held up well even as I was squeezing through small cave openings, scraping the suit all the way, The caves are quite abrasive, as evidence by the lack of skin on my fingertips after a week of pulling my way into some high flow caves.

I was not too thrilled with the undergarment that came with the suit and switched to a layered approach using several different Fourth Element undergarments. I also don't use the Whites boots, but instead use a pair of Oceanic 6.5mm Neo Classic Heavy Duty Zipper Boots with 3XL turtle fins.

 

[irishsquid]

Standing in the parking lot, looking at it funny, just thinking about it...

It's just that easy to make leak.

That's just funny as can be.

 

[TSandM]

There has been a recent thread on the GUE forums (where there are some strong supporters of DUI) on what people like for dry suits, and I have been amazed that even there, a lot of folks have complained about their TLS350s.

For me, it was a no-brainer. I'm not a stock size, so a DUI suit with the features I wanted would have run close to 3K. My Fusion, with undergarment, was $1400. I have had it for three years, and it has somewhere around 450 dives on it. I have had two pinhole leaks in the suit, one of which I probably did when putting the p-valve in it. Despite its rather silly appearance, it has proven impressively durable. It's light, dries quickly, swims quite nicely through the water (due to the streamlining effect of the Lycra skin). My big complaints were footgear (I did not like the socks that came with the suit -- they were stiff and too big for me, and hard to stuff into ANY kind of shoe or boot, so I replaced them with TurboSoles, which aren't perfect but I like them bette) and pockets. For pockets, I use X-shorts. They work absolutely fine, the only problem is remembering to bring them and to put them on.

No dry suit is perfect, but you can do a lot of diving for the $1500 price differential . . . just saying.

 

[ligersandtions]

I have two DUI drysuits....a CF200 (crushed neoprene) and a TLS350 (trilam). Both leak

I haven't had a dry dive since October 2009 and have replaced zippers, neck seals, patched leaks....these suits do leak.

A couple of my buddies (husband, jenth) dive Fusions and have had no leaking through the suit....issues like leaking dump valve or poorly fitting neck seals aside.

I'm on the verge of selling one of my suits (after searching for leaks again) and buying a Fusion. For the price you'd spend on a new DUI, I'd opt for the Fusion. If you can find a used DUI at a good price, it's a bit of a toss-up....some people have had dry DUI's, I just happen to not be one.


FWIW, regarding the neoprene vs trilam issue: I hate my neoprene on the surface but it dives like a dream (love it underwater!). Getting the trilam on is much easier and it dries faster and weighs less, but it's not nearly as streamlined as the neoprene because you have to have it big enough since it doesn't stretch. Neoprene is warmer....and compression is not an issue, provided you go with crushed neoprene. Sounds like someone gave some crappy advice about neoprene, imo.

 

[Jax]

I have two DUI drysuits....a CF200 (crushed neoprene) and a TLS350 (trilam). Both leak

I haven't had a dry dive since October 2009 and have replaced zippers, neck seals, patched leaks....these suits do leak.

A couple of my buddies (husband, jenth) dive Fusions and have had no leaking through the suit....issues like leaking dump valve or poorly fitting neck seals aside.

I'm on the verge of selling one of my suits (after searching for leaks again) and buying a Fusion. For the price you'd spend on a new DUI, I'd opt for the Fusion. If you can find a used DUI at a good price, it's a bit of a toss-up....some people have had dry DUI's, I just happen to not be one.

FWIW, regarding the neoprene vs trilam issue: I hate my neoprene on the surface but it dives like a dream (love it underwater!). Getting the trilam on is much easier and it dries faster and weighs less, but it's not nearly as streamlined as the neoprene because you have to have it big enough since it doesn't stretch. Neoprene is warmer....and compression is not an issue, provided you go with crushed neoprene. Sounds like someone gave some crappy advice about neoprene, imo.

There's an awful lot of stories like yours . . . how old are your DUIs, please?

 

[Crush]

There's an awful lot of stories like yours . . . how old are your DUIs, please?

Yup. I have read and heard lots of bad DUI stories, but my DUI experience has been positive (TLS 350 Signature Series). My dump valve is temperamental, though. It stays dry, but it seems to have a mind of its own (should I clean or flush it regularly?) I only have about 50 dives on it over two years, but it keeps me dry even while immersed. I do get some moisture due to condensation, but that can't be helped unless you can somehow purge your suit continuously.

 

[tech3324]

I was not too thrilled with the undergarment that came with the suit and switched to a layered approach using several different Fourth Element undergarments. I also don't use the Whites boots, but instead use a pair of Oceanic 6.5mm Neo Classic Heavy Duty Zipper Boots with 3XL turtle fins.

Which undergarment were you not thrilled with? Just curious because I'm getting a demo Whites Mk2 undergarment with my demo Fusion suit, but sizes were limited so I may end up returning the Mk2. Which Fourth Element pieces did you settle on?

BTW, I'm in Ventura too.

 

[Jax]

Yup. I have read and heard lots of bad DUI stories, but my DUI experience has been positive (TLS 350 Signature Series). My dump valve is temperamental, though. It stays dry, but it seems to have a mind of its own (should I clean or flush it regularly?) I only have about 50 dives on it over two years, but it keeps me dry even while immersed. I do get some moisture due to condensation, but that can't be helped unless you can somehow purge your suit continuously.

You see, I hear stories like yours, too. Signature series is custom, is it not?

Some of the people get their suits, they leak, they don't fit right, and they have to send it back over and over and over. There's a constant theme of "all DUI leaks". Then I hear a few good news stories. I can't seem to find any rhyme or reason to good or crap; it's not a certain store, it's not a certain region, it's nothing that can be traced.

And that's why DUI is a distant 3rd behind Nex-Gen and Fusion - if I'm going to spend that kind of money on a drysuit, I want the blinking thing right the first time, not the fourth or fifth.

 

[HenrikBP]

Other than some fit issues I've been happy with my Fusion. I think when talking about the Fusion it's important to indicate which skin you have. I've own and have dived the Tech, Tech LE and the Bullet skins. The Bullet skin is clearly the skin that has been "developed" the most. Lots of neat improvements - in particular the pockets are better made than the other skins - even if they're still smaller than I'd like.

The Bullet skin however is made from more durable, but less stretchy material, so it is actually too tight for me over the shoulders ... no, I'm not that big And it's also a bit more work to put on.

The regular Tech skin, made from lycra and thin neoprene, is much stretchier and works much better for me fit wise.

That said, the Fusion dives well, and the skin compression makes it easy to manage the bubble. It also makes it a bit slower to get air from feet to the vent, so you need to stay ahead of the bubble expansion.

The socks are a bit big for me, and I've been diving them with 5 mil neoprene booties. I'd prefer something like the Turbo Soles for the added ankle mobility.

Henrik