Down deep...things to remember

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Rick Murchison:
...For example, (and I'll only bore you with one) when spearfishing, hanging your first, used bottle and breathing it at your safety stops instead of the one on your back can often get you another dive on the bottle you're carrying. Since I only have room for two bottles each on the boat this may well make the difference in whether we're having fresh fish or MacDonald's for supper.

Bottom line: Hanging a tank and using it isn't bad in and of itself. But planning on being able to use it, even in an emergency, is bad. Don't.
Rick

I'm still not seeing the point in hanging a tank. Recommended safety stops are only 3 minutes long. How much air are you going to suck up hanging off a line for 3 minutes? Do you make it clear to everyone on your boat what the only purpose of the hang tank is?

I agree hanging a tank and using it isn't bad in and of itself, but I don't see that there's enough of a payoff (3 minutes of air) to justify the trouble.
 
Uncle Pug:
I am speaking more as a diver than as a FF.

I see your thinking Unc. & I have to say no - I'm not advocating taking everything PLUS the kitchen sink to the dive sight. My point in the Firefighting reference was more to do with expecting the unexpected. You & some others here can't fathom when such an air supply might be needed, what with all the participants so well gassed up & competent as to preclude any need. That mind set I cannot fathom.

I'm sure you & the other charter Captains carry Medical O2 / 1st Aid kit / Emergency contigency plans out on every trip. Why do you do this? Because something might happen & you want to be prepared. Well then - why not pack along a m.a.s.h. unit? Build a helipad & take along a huey? Obviously, that much is logistically too much. But you are prepared for emergencies. Would adding a submersible emergency air supply ( S.E.A.S ) be logistically undoable? I think not. Would it be prudent & reasonable to do so? I think so. What I can't understand is this great fear that someone in your carefully screened, well-trained group of permissible participants might stupidly plan to access this air as part of their dive plan, should they decide to stretch things a bit. They don't sound like the type that would - but that fact does not protect them from harms way. So the arguement that it is a danger to your divers doesn't add up.

In the deepsea, I had virtually an unlimited supply of air / gas. Yet I wore a "bailout bottle" on my back as an emergency gas source. Why? Because despite all our redundancies / safety systems / standby divers etc., I might find myself in a position one day where I need that reserve on my back to survive. And why not? It is easy to carry, easy to access, non-restricting ( for the most part ) - so we use it. If a S.E.A.S. was logistically unreasonable to provide ( like a m.a.s.h. unit would be ), I could understand your reticence to use one. And all this talk about coming off lines, going up the wrong line yada yada, as a means of showing how useless the supply would be...c'mon folks! No one said it was the perfect catch-all solution. Twenty regs. - one for each diver...puhlease!

No, I think this has more to do with a certain degree of mis-guided self-confidence in your ability to manage the diving. Please, I mean no offense. I'm sure your very good at what you do. There has been talk of complacency - in my mind, it is when things have gone well for a long time that the danger of complacency becomes a real concern. We face this specter in the Fire Service when we go too long between major fires. One has to battle to continue to do all that is possible & prudent to stay vigilant against this very real problem, or things just might rear up to bite you in the.... ( oohhh, just had a flashback to the moray attack on Billy...ouch! ).

Best Fishes,
D.S.D.
 
Dive-aholic:
I'm still not seeing the point in hanging a tank. Recommended safety stops are only 3 minutes long. How much air are you going to suck up hanging off a line for 3 minutes?
Just save something a bit less than a couple hundred psi at the most per dive. Spearfishing sites are small; a minute or two to get down, maybe 10 max on the site and ascend - so hanging a tank can typically get you four sites vice three on a tank.
Dive-aholic:
Do you make it clear to everyone on your boat what the only purpose of the hang tank is?
I reckon... we've been spearfishing together for decades.
Dive-aholic:
I agree hanging a tank and using it isn't bad in and of itself, but I don't see that there's enough of a payoff (3 minutes of air) to justify the trouble.
Then you shouldn't bother... :)
Rick
 
Pug: Are you a charter captain? I've always had the impression from your posts here
and on the whaler list that you were just a very experienced recreational boater.

I'm NOT a charter captain, just a recreational boater with about 450 days on the water
in Monterey. I DO carry O2 because there are undeserved bends hits. Even the most
competant diver could get one on a recreational dive. I have a buddy
who got a hit on a profile that you would say "NO WAY COULD HE BE BENT". But it
cleared under pressure.

Now, the difference between a charter captain and a recreational boater is that the
rec boater has 100% control over who gets on the boat. The charter operation is
treading on thin ice if they turn someone away because they don't like his attitude.
 
I'll second that. Nor am I. Thus we can and do decide who gets invited on our boats.
Won't speak for UP, but most times I carry an O2 kit on my boat. No mash unit, and I wish my boat was big enough for heli pad! That would be a monster Zodiac!
 
NWGratefulDiver:
we knew it was not our ascent line, but decided to use it anyway 'cuz my primary light had failed, we were already into deco and I didn't want to go swimming across the deck of the ship looking for the correct line in 15' vis using a backup light.Bob (Grateful Diver)

Not Bones and me. We were lost. Which end do you call the bow? Just kidding. I honestly thought that the line just forward of the stern was our up line. When we got close enough to the surface and couldn't see the boat above us, I knew that we had missed the #4 buoy and instead gone up the #3.
 
Dive-aholic:
I'm still not seeing the point in hanging a tank. Recommended safety stops are only 3 minutes long. How much air are you going to suck up hanging off a line for 3 minutes? Do you make it clear to everyone on your boat what the only purpose of the hang tank is?

I agree hanging a tank and using it isn't bad in and of itself, but I don't see that there's enough of a payoff (3 minutes of air) to justify the trouble.

Your post makes it sound like you only ever do safety stops.
The whole point of a hang tank is to cover the unexpected situation which may put you further into obligatory deco than you had planned and you don't have enough air to cover it. This may be just 1 additional minute at 3m or OTOH just as an example lets say a 1st dive by the tables to 63m for 18m which could push you to 3mins @15m + 3 mins @ 12m + 4mins @ 9m + 6mins @ 6m + 21mins @ 3m.
I would use 95bar of an AL80 just to do this ascent.
 
miketsp:
Your post makes it sound like you only ever do safety stops.
The whole point of a hang tank is to cover the unexpected situation which may put you further into obligatory deco than you had planned and you don't have enough air to cover it. This may be just 1 additional minute at 3m or OTOH just as an example lets say a 1st dive by the tables to 63m for 18m which could push you to 3mins @15m + 3 mins @ 12m + 4mins @ 9m + 6mins @ 6m + 21mins @ 3m.
I would use 95bar of an AL80 just to do this ascent.

I don't just do safety stops and in open water I carry all the gas I need including condtingency gas for longer decompression.

In a cave, leaving extra bottles of gas laying around is a good idea as far as I'm concerned but in open water it's a sugar pill.
 
miketsp:
Your post makes it sound like you only ever do safety stops.
The whole point of a hang tank is to cover the unexpected situation which may put you further into obligatory deco than you had planned and you don't have enough air to cover it. This may be just 1 additional minute at 3m or OTOH just as an example lets say a 1st dive by the tables to 63m for 18m which could push you to 3mins @15m + 3 mins @ 12m + 4mins @ 9m + 6mins @ 6m + 21mins @ 3m.
I would use 95bar of an AL80 just to do this ascent.

No, I was replying to a post that referred specifically to safety stops not deco stops. And, like Mike F. I carry all the gas I need and then some.

DeepSeaDan:
No, I think this has more to do with a certain degree of mis-guided self-confidence in your ability to manage the diving...

I think you're taking what we're saying the wrong way. Rather than a misguided self-confidence, it's a knowledge that things can occur that will prevent us from getting back to the line. So instead of relying on a tank we may not be able to get to, we bring all our gas with us, including contingency gas.

Rick Murchison:
Spearfishing sites are small; a minute or two to get down, maybe 10 max on the site and ascend - so hanging a tank can typically get you four sites vice three on a tank.

Okay, that makes sense now. I don't spearfish, so I had no idea you only spent 10 minutes down. I was figuring on 30-40 minutes dives.
 

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