Down deep...things to remember

[MXGratefulDiver]

Last month I was on a charter with eight others to dive some wrecks. There was a hang bottle at 20'. On the last dive my buddy and another team came up the wrong line. The four of us finished out a one hour dive with deco, with the lowest (back gas) tank being 1000 psi. We had a 50' surface swim to the boat. We made a mistake on which line to ascend and it's a good thing that we had all planned and stuck to our dive. Had we blown off our plan because there was a hang bottle, then someone would have gotten bent.

Minor correction, O' Exposed One ... we knew it was not our ascent line, but decided to use it anyway 'cuz my primary light had failed, we were already into deco and I didn't want to go swimming across the deck of the ship looking for the correct line in 15' vis using a backup light.

On those dives, a hang bottle is SOP for the charter companies ... they're deep profiles, and the charter captains don't really know beforehand that everybody going down there is going to manage their gas properly. It's easy (and happens on occasion) for the recreationally-trained divers who do those wrecks to run themselves into deco ... sometimes without the skills to come up with sufficient reserve gas to honor a deco obligation.

That said ... of the several times I've done those dives, I've yet to see anyone actually breathe off of one. I have, however, seen (and participated in) share air situations on the ascent lines.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Uncle Pug]

What I speak of...has more to do with my experiences as a Firefighter than as a diver....

We take with us as much as we can carry - just in case.

I am speaking more as a diver than as a FF.

 

[boomx5]

...has more to do with my experiences as a Firefighter than as a diver, though in both commercial & scuba I've seen some stuff that I wouldn't of believed could happen.

D.S.D.

He has told me of some stuff I couldn't believe would ever happen. I've heard people think of commercial diving as some sort of glamorous job, but from some of the things he's told me about, it's just a construction job in the most harsh of conditions where the stakes are very high at times.

 

[Dive-aholic]

No need for the hypothetical here, we can leap right to the specific.
A hang bottle or two could likely have saved the Rouses. No need to argue whether that would have been the best solution or not - a hang bottle would have allowed them the time to send a note topside for more gas, and turned a double fatality into a great sea story.
Rick

I don't recall the Rouses ascending on the line. In fact, I think they both ended up ascending 50-100' from the boat - no where near where a hang tank would've been. Also, when Bernie took a hit, it happened because he got disoriented and swam the wrong way. He knew he couldn't get back to the line. He chose the hit over drowning.

In response to several others comments...

How many boats take out 12-20 divers and hang a tank with 12-20 regs? And is that enough air for all those divers? If you're going to plan for the unforeseen, then you should have enough hang tanks and enough regs to account for all divers on the boat running out of air at the same time.

Carry your air, all of it. Then you don't have to waste time swimming to or looking for the line. You can just free ascend, or shoot a bag and ascend your reel line.

As for carrying all of the equipment you need on a pumper, DSD, you have the pumper to carry it. And you can always get to the pumper...unless of course you're in the burning building. Do you carry all the tools and air you may need into the burning building? No, because it's physically impossible to carry everything in for every unforeseen event that may occur. (I used to be a FF, so I'm speaking with a little bit of experience.) And when you go into a burning building, you never leave your line (hose) unless doing a rescue, but then only under certain circumstances.

 

[Rick Murchison]

I don't recall the Rouses ascending on the line.

Is that right? My memory was that they did. If they didn't come up the line then they're not a good case.

 

[Uncle Pug]

They didn't. According to The Last Dive Steve Mcdougall was on the line and never did see them. They surfaced 100' away ahead of the Seeker.

But of course this is all beside the point. Would a hang bottle have helped them? In 5'~6' seas with the boat pitching? What gasses? At what depths?

But of course that too is beside the point for this discussion... a red herring if you will.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Is that right? My memory was that they did. If they didn't come up the line then they're not a good case.

What I recall is they started their ascent, found the line, but didn't go for it due to panic. One of them surfaced off the Seeker's stern, the other surfaced off the Seeker's bow, both off the line.

It's been about a year since I read Shadow Divers and Last Dive, so I might not have it exactly right, but I do remember one of them surfacing off the bow.

Anyone have a better memory on this? Or more recent one?

 

[Rick Murchison]

After a bit of back-channel banter, and re-reading this thread, I feel I need to clarify my views on hang tanks and their use. And when I use the term "hang tank" I include a second stage at the safety stop coming off a bottle on deck.

1. For gas planning purposes hang tanks do not exist.

2. For gas management purposes during the dive, hang tanks do not exist. Even if you can see a hang tank on the up-line, as far as your gas management is concerned, it is empty.

3. Hang tanks aren't there for backup, nor are they a part of any emergency planning. Hanging a tank "in case someone gets low on air" is a monumentally wrong reason to hang a tank. Proper gas planning and management doesn't allow anyone to get so low on air that they require gas beyond what the team is carrying.

And yet I've said I sometimes hang a tank... why? It has nothing to do with backup gas, or someone getting low on air, or any gas management contingency, but rather with convenience. The example I gave earlier had to do with deco - but there are times when hanging a tank in a recreational setting can make sense, too.

For example, (and I'll only bore you with one) when spearfishing, hanging your first, used bottle and breathing it at your safety stops instead of the one on your back can often get you another dive on the bottle you're carrying. Since I only have room for two bottles each on the boat this may well make the difference in whether we're having fresh fish or MacDonald's for supper.

Bottom line: Hanging a tank and using it isn't bad in and of itself. But planning on being able to use it, even in an emergency, is bad. Don't.
Rick

 

[Charlie99]

I understand where you are coming from. On a certain level it can't hurt? By advocating a hang bottle you are in a way condoning its use.
.

It's interesting to read back through these various posts, substituting "buddy" for "hang tank", and see how much of that logic still applies.

 

[boomx5]

It's interesting to read back through these various posts, substituting "buddy" for "hang tank", and see how much of that logic still applies.

Why would I want to hang my buddy?